044 rebuild inspection

[Goat]

what ring?? are you sure it's supposed to be there?

Lake this is the o-ring that I'm talking about.

 

[Lakeside53]

hmmmm....... Guess I never read the manual that close... uh, oh... might be a few without that o-ring in service.


I'll get back to you..

 

[Lakeside53]

Here's the scoop... I asked the people that really know.. So now I learned something intersting also!


>>>>

The first couple of IPL showed the “O” ring then it went away. Engineering thought it wasn’t needed due to tighter tolerances between the spacer and crankshaft. In most cases they are correct but I’ve seen older products develop an air leak between the spacer and “0” ring. I get 1-2 calls a year about this and the fix is to replace the crankshaft or add the “O” ring.


The part number for ring is 9645 945 1170 located in IPL 1989-03.
>>>>



Always read the service manual in context of subsequent IPLs and techical update notes.

 

[RiverRat2]

Here's the scoop... I asked the people that really know.. So now I learned something intersting also!


>>>>

The first couple of IPL showed the “O” ring then it went away. Engineering thought it wasn’t needed due to tighter tolerances between the spacer and crankshaft. In most cases they are correct but I’ve seen older products develop an air leak between the spacer and “0” ring. I get 1-2 calls a year about this and the fix is to replace the crankshaft or add the “O” ring.


The part number for ring is 9645 945 1170 located in IPL 1989-03.
>>>>



Always read the service manual in context of subsequent IPLs and techical update notes.

Neither one of my 044/440's I own one of each, (and BTW Andy, taking your advice & buying a brand new 440 to shrink wrap for future) have that type of sleeve with the slot for the o-ring on both of mine the sleeve/spacer's are completely straight..... :monkey: :monkey: :monkey:

 

[Goat]

I don't remember if one was on there or if it wasn't but when I started reassembly is when it clicked, fished through the manual and rest is history.

Anyway, since there seem to be two styles of spacer and I have the style that takes the o-ring I put one in. I used a -013 Viton for anyone that chooses to do the same. The fit is tight and takes a bit to get over the threads. I'd rather not be the 1 annual phone call about said leak problem.

 

[Goat]

Well gents, I got the saw put together last night. I didn't start it due to the hour. I performed some surgery on my cylinder shroud to fit a winter/summer shutter.

I left the engine stock, no mods. I want to run it for a while and see what the saw is like stock. Maybe mod it next season...

What is consensus on breaking a new piston & rings on a non-honed jug?

 

[Lakeside53]

Just use it normally... If you used stihl rings the seating ridges will wear quickly, and if aftermarket, might take a few hours longer, but they'll get there.

 

[Goat]

Goat's POS

I should have this thread renamed to Goat's POS 044...

Turned L/H 1 turn out, fired her up and she fell flat on her face. Wouldn't even idle. Free reving no problem. I tweaked the L screw and finally got the saw to idle, though, it doesn't sound the best. So right now she runs with the L 1 1/4 open & H 3/4 open (12500rpm) according to mr tach.

I did a pressure & vac test to make sure that nothing was fouled during my assembly. Passed easily... I checked the carb at 6psi according to the manual and it didn't leak, but I've searched the boards and guys mentioned testing Zama's upto 15psi. Is this the same for Walboro HD's?

Took the covers off the carb to look for dirt/clogs, none found. What do you guys think, carb rebuild time? Any test tips on dialing in what the problem with the carb might be?

 

[Lakeside53]

It's close, but... You likely have a stiff metering diaphragm or the inlet lever is set to the wrong height. Throw in a new kit just to eliminate the stupid stuff, then we can go from there... 6-8 psi is fine for a carb test.


Don't go blasting air though the passages... be gentle...

 

[RiverRat2]

It's close, but... You likely have a stiff metering diaphragm or the inlet lever is set to the wrong height. Throw in a new kit just to eliminate the stupid stuff, then we can go from there... 6-8 psi is fine for a carb test.


Don't go blasting air though the passages... be gentle...

Do this while you have it apart putting the new metering diaphram in,,,

Remove L screw,,,,,, take a can of carb cleaner with the little red tube installed,,,,,, insert tube in the L screw hole,,,, flush good throught the idle circuit if it doesnt flow freely,,, I take fine piano wire and bend a 90* about a1/4" long and rod out the idle passage from the venturi bore (just under and inside the throttle plate, look close and you will see two tiny little holes, do em both,,, ya have to hold the throttle plate open with your finger) and then reflush with the carb cleaner,,,,usually that takes care of one that wont idle but does free rev,,,,,,, I have found as long as the metering diaphrams are supple and not crackley/stiff that idle circuit being plugged will make act like what you are describing,,, but if ya got it apart,,, may as well put the good stuff in...

I will really stress to heed Lakes warning on blowing excessively with compressed air!!!!!

you can ruin your carb with too much air blasting!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Locoweed]

Ok, I'll bite. What happens with too much compressed air?

 

[RiverRat2]

Ok, I'll bite. What happens with too much compressed air?

There are little brass check valves internally mounted and the excessive air movement hammers them so hard they cease being able to function properly and dont hold or seat/seal when they need to and it ruins the carb,,,,,,,,

And yes,,,,, I learned the hard way!!!!!!!! :monkey:

 

[Locoweed]

Ok, Thanks

 

[Goat]

Ok, carb kit is in but the problem still remains. I blasted carb cleaner through every passage I could find. Used a small piece of wire to "floss" the idle ports from the the carb throat side like RR2 suggested. I didn't use air to blow out the ports as I thought the pressure from the can was enough. Used up an entire can...

Installed new gaskets, pump diaphram, metering diaphram, needle. Stihl manual says 1/32" below, while Walbro manual says flush, lever came set about 1/32" below the carb face so I didn't adjust it.

H & L 1 turn out, cranked her and she idled for about 5sec before dying.

I'm going to go through it again, when I get home, to make sure I didn't do anything stupid...

Is my lever set correctly? Should I go back and blow the passages out with CDA? What else would you guys suggest?

 

[KMB]

Ok, carb kit is in but the problem still remains. I blasted carb cleaner through every passage I could find. Used a small piece of wire to "floss" the idle ports from the the carb throat side like RR2 suggested. I didn't use air to blow out the ports as I thought the pressure from the can was enough. Used up an entire can...

Installed new gaskets, pump diaphram, metering diaphram, needle. Stihl manual says 1/32" below, while Walbro manual says flush, lever came set about 1/32" below the carb face so I didn't adjust it.

H & L 1 turn out, cranked her and she idled for about 5sec before dying.

I'm going to go through it again, when I get home, to make sure I didn't do anything stupid...

Is my lever set correctly? Should I go back and blow the passages out with CDA? What else would you guys suggest?

I'm probably the last guy to give advice, but after reading about your idling troubles, I looked at my 044 service manual and owner's manual regarding carb adjustments...have you tried adjusting the idle speed adjusting screw (LA), as the manuals suggests, when the engine stops while idling? Soon I hope to be in your position (put my 044 back together and get it running) and this situation you're going through is of interest to me.

Kevin

 

[Lakeside53]

Ok, carb kit is in but the problem still remains. I blasted carb cleaner through every passage I could find. Used a small piece of wire to "floss" the idle ports from the the carb throat side like RR2 suggested. I didn't use air to blow out the ports as I thought the pressure from the can was enough. Used up an entire can...

Installed new gaskets, pump diaphram, metering diaphram, needle. Stihl manual says 1/32" below, while Walbro manual says flush, lever came set about 1/32" below the carb face so I didn't adjust it.

H & L 1 turn out, cranked her and she idled for about 5sec before dying.

I'm going to go through it again, when I get home, to make sure I didn't do anything stupid...

Is my lever set correctly? Should I go back and blow the passages out with CDA? What else would you guys suggest?

Not sure what you are reading from Stihl, but set the metering arm flush with the top of the carb. It will run at -1/32 but be slighly lean at power using the the 1 turn out settings. Don't blow any passsages.. that's not your problem, and blasting air can ruin your outlet valve. As KMB says.. turn up the LA screw until the throttle plate just opens and try again.

There is of course a chance that the carb in not the problem.

 

[RiverRat2]

Did You change the the screen in the bottom of the carb?

Not sure what you are reading from Stihl, but set the metering arm flush with the top of the carb. It will run at -1/32 but be slighly lean at power using the the 1 turn out settings. Don't blow any passsages.. that's not your problem, and blasting air can ruin your outlet valve. As KMB says.. turn up the LA screw until the throttle plate just opens and try again.

There is of course a chance that the carb in not the problem.

I did not notice in your post if you mentioned changinig the fuel inlet screen,,,

There is a screen in the bottom side (Fuel pump) of the carb body its about the size of a pencil eraser,,,,, with the top and bottom covers removed and the bottom side up do this flow test,,,,, pour a little mix into the screen and fill the cavity flush with the carb body,,, the fuel inlet needle valve should be closed and hold the level in the inlet screen.... still holding the carb body upside down over a fuel/oil waste catch pan with your finger depress the fuel inlet lever fully opening the needle valve and the mix should readily drain through the screen relativly freely....... sometimes there is such fine trash behind that screen it looks clean but just will not flow enough fuel to let the engine run properly,,, also make sure you have the metering diaphram and gasket in the right order on your reassembly

I hope this helps,,, and like Lake said,,, You might be chasing another problem :bang: :bang: :bang:

G'day, Mate!!!!

 

[Goat]

Not sure what you are reading from Stihl, but set the metering arm flush with the top of the carb. It will run at -1/32 but be slighly lean at power using the the 1 turn out settings. Don't blow any passsages.. that's not your problem, and blasting air can ruin your outlet valve. As KMB says.. turn up the LA screw until the throttle plate just opens and try again.

There is of course a chance that the carb in not the problem.

Stihl 044 manual, in the carb section says to set the lever 1/32" (0.8mm) below the face. Doesn't mention which carb, but the pictures are of a Zama. I'll set it to flush.

In reguards to the LA screw, I've done that. If I try it the way you guys suggest. I maybe get a couple of revs out of the saw at idle. I started turning it in more and the more I open the throttle plate w/ LA screw the longer it will idle before it quits. But the idle is horrible...

I'll dunk the saw into a water bath tonight and see if I can find an air leak. If that does show anything then it could be ignition. I'll have to chase that then.

RiverRat,
The screen was replaced, I forgot to mention that in my previous post. I'll try your test and report back. The metering side is assembled as follows: carb, gasket, diaphram, cover.

 

[Lakeside53]

The walbro carb is flush...

The water test (assuming you pressurize the saw) may not show anything. Many seals only fail under vacuum and you sure don't want to do that in water!

Ignition? that would be rare...

Pressure test your carb by appying pressue to the fuel inlet. Make sure it can hold 8-12 psi...


While the saw is idling badly, turn the L screw either way and see if it cleans up. You might need to 'blip it" to keep it running

 

[RiverRat2]

Stihl 044 manual, in the carb section says to set the lever 1/32" (0.8mm) below the face. Doesn't mention which carb, but the pictures are of a Zama. I'll set it to flush.

In reguards to the LA screw, I've done that. If I try it the way you guys suggest. I maybe get a couple of revs out of the saw at idle. I started turning it in more and the more I open the throttle plate w/ LA screw the longer it will idle before it quits. But the idle is horrible...

I'll dunk the saw into a water bath tonight and see if I can find an air leak. If that does show anything then it could be ignition. I'll have to chase that then.

RiverRat,
The screen was replaced, I forgot to mention that in my previous post. I'll try your test and report back. The metering side is assembled as follows: carb, gasket, diaphram, cover.

Good deal keep us posted!!!!