044 rebuild inspection

[KMB]

Good deal keep us posted!!!!

+1!

Kevin

 

[Goat]

Just for my own piece of mind. The way I'm doing the pressure and vac test on the saw is by blocking off the exhaust and intake and applying pressure/vac via the impulse. Piston is usually at TDC but I did it at various crank angles yesterday. Is my method valid?

 

[KMB]

Just for my own piece of mind. The way I'm doing the pressure and vac test on the saw is by blocking off the exhaust and intake and applying pressure/vac via the impulse. Piston is usually at TDC but I did it at various crank angles yesterday. Is my method valid?

From what I've read here, that's the way to do it...I don't know if the position of the piston is important...

BTW, what did you use to block off the intake and exhaust ports? And how did you block off the intake port? I think I can block off the exhaust port easy enough by using a piece of rubber material (not sure what to use...that is why I asked the question) as a gasket between the muffler and cylinder...but not sure how to do the intake.

Kevin

 

[RiverRat2]

Yes very much so....

Just for my own piece of mind. The way I'm doing the pressure and vac test on the saw is by blocking off the exhaust and intake and applying pressure/vac via the impulse. Piston is usually at TDC but I did it at various crank angles yesterday. Is my method valid?

We do the same,,, have a squirt bottle w/soapy water or a bottle of Snoop,, leak detector works very well to find the leak BTW,,,,,,

Good post Rep,,,, incoming,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[KMB]

,,, have a squirt bottle w/soapy water or a bottle of Snoop,, leak detector works very well to find the leak BTW,,,,,,

Will have to add that to my rebuild supplies...thank ya!

Kevin

 

[Goat]

BTW, what did you use to block off the intake and exhaust ports? And how did you block off the intake port? I think I can block off the exhaust port easy enough by using a piece of rubber material (not sure what to use...that is why I asked the question) as a gasket between the muffler and cylinder...but not sure how to do the intake.

I used a strip of rubber on both ends. 1/8 closed cell Neoprene to be all technical Exhaust side, I used the muffler to hold the rubber gasket in place. Intake, I had to wip up a block off plate. Just a 1/4" piece of Al, with holes for the carb studs. You'll need spacers hold the plate in place, I found some at Home Depot. Go over the studs and press the plate using the carb nuts.

I'll post you a picture tonight...


I pressure tested and vac tested again last night. Couldn't find anything on the saw. Carb held 10psi no problem, checked the fuel supply line...

I checked for a sticky needle by giving it 10psi through the fuel filter end and cranking the saw over choked while watched for consistant pressure drop. Used the good old lung power to check the main nozzle check valve, blowing thru good. Sucking...well, there was resistance but I could get some flow thru. Aren't these supposed to seal completely?

 

[KMB]

1/8 closed cell Neoprene to be all technical

I would use an old bicycle tube...but don't have one. So where did you get the Neoprene? I'm just looking for other rubber material and an easy, local place to get it (HomeDepot, Lowes etc.)

I'll post you a picture tonight...

Thanks, I'd like to see it. I don't have access to the aluminum plate that you mentioned...I'll have to think of something else after I see your picture(s).

Aren't these supposed to seal completely?

Don't know.

Kevin

 

[Goat]

I would use an old bicycle tube...but don't have one. So where did you get the Neoprene? I'm just looking for other rubber material and an easy, local place to get it (HomeDepot, Lowes etc.)

I just opened the phonebook and looked for the closest rubber products dealer. Called them up and asked if they had any remnants...they gave me a 3' x 3' sheet.

 

[KMB]

I just opened the phonebook...

Didn't think about that...:monkey: , thanks for the idea.

Kevin

 

[andrethegiant70]

Hi, Goat, sorry about the trouble you're having.. nonetheless, this is a pretty interesting thread, so thanks for that. I'm not the pro these fellows are and I'm not even much of a Stihl guy, but it really sounds like a fuel supply problem. I'm sure you checked the impulse system? I don't know whether it is an impulse line or a carb block port....if its a carb block port, are you using the right gasket? There was a quite a lot crud in your bearings, could some of it have worked its way into the impulse system PRIOR to the carburetor?

The only other thing I can recommend is swapping carbs with another saw to troubleshoot. I may have one.... it will take me a few days to send it as I'm not home right now, but if you'd like to look into that, let me know.

 

[Goat]

I looked over the impulse system but I can look it over again. From the symptoms I see it's an idle circuit problem. If I tweak the carb to idle and not die under accel, it takes just about the right amout of fuel at WOT. So me thinks that not a fuel supply issue to the carb. But being systematic and thorough won't hurt.

I appreciate the offer of a test carb, since there is no smoking gun. I thought that would be the next step so I have a carb showing up on Sat. We shall see what a brand new carb has to show.

 

[KMB]

Goat,

I was just in town running some errands and went by the local tire repair shop. The old fella had a piece of flexible tire/rim lining that he gave me that I think will work perfect. My only concern is the thickness of the rubber...3/16"...not sure if the muffler mount screws will be long enough.
Anyway, I'll wait and for you to post the pic of your setup for blocking the intake to see what else I'll need.

Kevin

 

[Goat]

No Vac Leak

KMB,
Here are the photos...

You can see the rubber on the exhaust side ballooned in towards the piston. Well you know what I did, yesterday, when I was checking out the saw for leaks. I lost track of time and had to run off to a prior engagement. Well, in my haste I forgot to vent the Mighty Vac. So the saw sat under vacuum all night long. Yes it held 0.4bar for 24hrs. I guess I can rule out the fact that I have a vacuum leak.

 

[PES+]

The answer is simple..you have a very early 044 as is shown by the shielded bearings and the o-ring in the oiler. Your carb base settings will be 1.5 on the low and approx 3/4 on the hi.

the 1 and 1 carb settings came in with emissions complience mid way in 044 production.

The old standard was usually 1.5 L and 3/4 high on most 2-strokes.

Set the low at 1.5 and the high a little past 3/4 and adjust your idle stop for no chain movement then check your acceleration you will probably be able to lean out the low a little from the full 1.5 but I suspect you are just way too lean on the low speed jet so you are lean bogging in transition between the low and high circuits of the carb.

 

[RiverRat2]

Goat,

I was just in town running some errands and went by the local tire repair shop. The old fella had a piece of flexible tire/rim lining that he gave me that I think will work perfect. My only concern is the thickness of the rubber...3/16"...not sure if the muffler mount screws will be long enough.
Anyway, I'll wait and for you to post the pic of your setup for blocking the intake to see what else I'll need.

Kevin

That's a tad thick but should work,,,, Buna Nitrile gasket material works the best cut then on a taper and make them about about 4-6 " long so you can slide them in behind the muffler,,,,,,

yeah I think Goats crank is pretty much leak free in regard to the service manual if it will hold vacuum especailly that long,,, You have another problem Im I need to study on it a bit more,,,,,

This is a good one !!!!! but we'll get it!!!!!

Oh!!! BTW I wouldn't take it scuba diving any more!!!!!! LOL

 

[Goat]

Oh!!! BTW I wouldn't take it scuba diving any more!!!!!! LOL

You know, I had Pinky (yes, I'm calling the saw Pinky) dressed in his rubbers ready for the drink. And I swear either God, Allah or the Four Winds sent a message from the heavens to the effect of "Goatman, this is the :censored: dumbest idea you have had to date". Well after that bit of divine intervention I couldn't bring myself to dunk it.

Pest,
I have no idea what I have, it's an amalgamation of parts. I have sheilded bearings, a carb that is discontinued, a crank with a 12mm wrist pin and a crankcase with 134xxxxxx serial.

 

[Bowtie]

Good luck Goat. MAN, I cant wait to see what your problem is. I have 2 020t's I have been chasing problems similar to that.

 

[RiverRat2]

You know, I had Pinky (yes, I'm calling the saw Pinky) dressed in his rubbers ready for the drink. And I swear either God, Allah or the Four Winds sent a message from the heavens to the effect of "Goatman, this is the :censored: dumbest idea you have had to date". Well after that bit of divine intervention I couldn't bring myself to dunk it.

Pest,
I have no idea what I have, it's an amalgamation of parts. I have sheilded bearings, a carb that is discontinued, a crank with a 12mm wrist pin and a crankcase with 134xxxxxx serial.

Thats not a bad start,,,, mine is 131099333 and it is 10+ years old,,, that saw is probably about 9- years old be sure to rip those shields out of the bearings and that carb if the internal check valves are holding it is better than the new ones cause there are no limiter caps,,, and it actually will flow a little more fuel I think I have a later model one if ya want to swap (pending if the body on your carb is good),,, I have a tester to check the internals,,, if you want to send it to me,, or you can take it to the Stihl dealer and they can test it but you will have to take the carbs covers off again :bang: :bang: :bang:

Oh and if ya want to sell it as is let me know il give ya a good down payment on a new 440 for it,,,

 

[KMB]

KMB,
Here are the photos...

You can see the rubber on the exhaust side ballooned in towards the piston. Well you know what I did, yesterday, when I was checking out the saw for leaks. I lost track of time and had to run off to a prior engagement. Well, in my haste I forgot to vent the Mighty Vac. So the saw sat under vacuum all night long. Yes it held 0.4bar for 24hrs. I guess I can rule out the fact that I have a vacuum leak.

Thanks for the pictures, they help alot. That deserved rep....

Any idea what I can use for the plate aside from aluminum?

Kevin

 

[RiverRat2]

Thanks for the pictures, they help alot. That deserved rep....

Any idea what I can use for the plate aside from aluminum?

Kevin

If you have another rubber strip you can use it instead of building a plate in a pinch,,,, leave the carb on,,,,, back off on the nuts, slide it away from the motor on the studs and carefully slip the rubber between the carb and the intake boot, taking care not to roll the intake boot flange making sure it remains flat in the sleeve and washer that are in and around the intake boot flange,,,,, and re-tighten against the rubber,, use the impulse hose ala goat and you are in business!!!! that ought to be worth some rep,,,Ehhhh?