661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[Whitespider]

That show was a riot. One of the last few things MTV did right before they turned into a puss-bag show.

Ya' know?? I just don't watch TV... or very little anyway... never really have (I find it boring, it normally puts me to sleep).
I'll watch a bit during the winter... on average, maybe an hour per week... but this time of year an hour per month is a stretch. We're 15 days into this month and I ain't watched 10 seconds of TV... probably something over three weeks since I've even looked at it. On a stormy Sunday afternoon I might watch part of a NASCAR race or a baseball game... which always turns into a nice nap. Seriously, if it weren't for the wife and kids, I likely wouldn't even own a TV... but, we've got 5 of 'em connected to a satellite dish in the house now . The wife just up-graded our tuners and DVR; supposedly we can record in one room and watch it in another now... or, at least that's what she tells me. I just nod and smile... I don't know how to make the thing record, so what good is being able to watch in another room what I don't know how to record anyway??
*

 

[bwalker]

The difference between 32:1 and 36:1 is miniscule, there is no way you can tell the difference between the two. Sorry I know beyond any doubt, you're not the sharpest aero in the quiver.

Glad I am not the only one who sees this and isn't afraid to call him out.

 

[bwalker]

took some pics as well

lucas 32:1 after 4 tanks in 661 - ran a tank on 20" a tank on 24" and 2 tanks on 30" bar.

Much cleaner burning than that H1R pics you have posted.

 

[bwalker]

I've used 32:1 in AT/m-tronic saws with zero affect on the throttle response.

As have I.

 

[bwalker]

RE: oil coating after shutdown. This is related to ratio and one of the side benifits of running a little more oil in your mix. The actual amount of oil coating bearings and the piston cylinder interface after shut down is a function of clearances. Further different oil colors give the appearance of more oil. IE a dark green or blue mix oil will show up against bare metal better than a orange dyed oil.
Honestly I never worried about residual oil because I never run less oil than 40:1 or mostly never more than 32:1.

 

[cuttinties]

I'm still curious about why he mixed Lucas at 36:1. The jug has easy to chart on the back. And accordingly mixing 36:1 would be uneeded effort.

 

[bwalker]

4

I'm still curious about why he mixed Lucas at 36:1. The jug has easy to chart on the back. And accordingly mixing 36:1 would be uneeded effort.

4 ounces to a gallon is pretty hard to screw up..

 

[CR500]

RE: oil coating after shutdown. This is related to ratio and one of the side benifits of running a little more oil in your mix. The actual amount of oil coating bearings and the piston cylinder interface after shut down is a function of clearances. Further different oil colors give the appearance of more oil. IE a dark green or blue mix oil will show up against bare metal better than a orange dyed oil.
Honestly I never worried about residual oil because I never run less oil than 40:1 or mostly never more than 32:1.

I've noticed that K2 at a certain angle has a reflective look.

The whole residual thing to me is nice to see but you are correct I trust that the bearings at 32:1 are plenty lubricated

 

[bwalker]

I've noticed that K2 at a certain angle has a reflective look.

The whole residual thing to me is nice to see but you are correct I trust that the bearings at 32:1 are plenty lubricated

There is certainly nothing magical about a 32:1 ratio. However it does work very well across a variety of applications and loads. I have had very good luck using it, but also use more oil on occasion for things like duning, milling or with engines that are sensitive to failure like Rotax 800cc twins.

 

[cuttinties]

Seriously though if you really want to test these oils then by all means do so. You have means to test temps. Don't ignore science and stick opinion. Show us your findings.


Evaporation test cut and dry simple.

Test boiling points

Test Flashpoint

Test how they burn (residual carbon test)

 

[CR500]

There is certainly nothing magical about a 32:1 ratio. However it does work very well across a variety of applications and loads. I have had very good luck using it, but also use more oil on occasion for things like duning, milling or with engines that are sensitive to failure like Rotax 800cc twins.

especially Rotax engines

 

[bwalker]

Seriously though if you really want to test these oils then by all means do so. You have means to test temps. Don't ignore science and stick opinion. Show us your findings.


Evaporation test cut and dry simple.

Test boiling points

Test Flashpoint

Test how they burn (residual carbon test)

And what relevance does flash point or boiling point have?
One of the problems with this subject and this thread is some people are under the impression they can compare figures like the above and come to some sort of decision on an oil's quality. You simply can't and for a a variety of reasons.
One example would be viscosity. Redbull would have you believe yamalube 2R is junk because it's viscosity is lower than H1R. What he's not considering is after you evaporate the diluent from 2R, as would happen when it enters a motor, 2r is likely much thicker than H1R. He also believes that the viscosity of H1R is what makes it run poorly at 32:1, however I am testing K2, which has a similar viscosity to H1R and it runs perfectly at 32:1. Even with a Autotune saw.
I guess what I am saying is this subject is pretty complex to dig into and distilling it down to simple comparisons based on MSDS sheets is a complete joke.

 

[cuttinties]

And what relevance does flash point or boiling point have?
One of the problems with this subject and this thread is some people are under the impression they can compare figures like the above and come to some sort of decision on an oil's quality. You simply can't and for a a variety of reasons.

My point was simply to test the oils rather than peep in a muffler. Boiling point matters some in bottom end in my opinion. The higher boiling point would be conducive in consistent surface lubrication as boiling will cause spotting. Flashpoint isn't extremely pertinent in the how effective an oil is. But it plays a role in carbon residue I'm sure.

The only real way to know is to test it is my point. Experience is the best education. And hands on applications are the easiest lessons to learn. Seeing the results rather than speculative conversation is what I'd like to see.

 

[cuttinties]

Something else that should be considered in this oil fiasco. Has anyone considered that some of these oils are more ideal for oil injection systems more so than a premix?

 

[bwalker]

The only injection oils being talked about in this thread are 710 and Lucas.
I am not a fan of using injection oils in pre mix applications.

 

[cuttinties]

The only injection oils being talked about in this thread are 710 and Lucas.
I am not a fan of using injection oils in pre mix applications.

Lucas Semi synthetic is a tweener. But I would have to agree with you.

 

[bwalker]

My point was simply to test the oils rather than peep in a muffler. Boiling point matters some in bottom end in my opinion. The higher boiling point would be conducive in consistent surface lubrication as boiling will cause spotting. Flashpoint isn't extremely pertinent in the how effective an oil is. But it plays a role in carbon residue I'm sure.

The only real way to know is to test it is my point. Experience is the best education. And hands on applications are the easiest lessons to learn. Seeing the results rather than speculative conversation is what I'd like to see.

Flashpoint plays a role in shipping and handling and that's about it. Boiling point is pretty meaningless as it pertains to lower end lubrication because the lower end is well below the end boiling point of two cycle oils by necessity.
The best results to look at are piston crown deposits and especially ring land deposits.

 

[bwalker]

Lucas Semi synthetic is a tweener. But I would have to agree with

There are pre mix oils and injection oils. Injection oils can be premixed, but premix oils shouldn't be used in injection sytems. That's not to say I have not used a pre mix lube in an injection system, but you better be damn careful if you go down that route.

 

[cuttinties]

Flashpoint plays a role in shipping and handling and that's about it. Boiling point is pretty meaningless as it pertains to lower end lubrication because the lower end is well below the end boiling point of two cycle oils by necessity.
The best results to look at are piston crown deposits and especially ring land deposits.

Most boiling points are 400+ . The con rod bearing has the best chance of getting to that tempature. But it's awfully difficult to find the temperature of internals. Blued con rods aren't uncommon.

 

[bwalker]

especially Rotax engines

My 800 went 7500 miles before I sold it and with rhe crappy laminate moly filled rings still in place. I was running Citgo Sea and Snow at the equivalent of 20:1. Never fouled a single plug and the Rave valves looked good when inspected yearly.