661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[bwalker]

Excuse my ignorance but unless tcw3has been photoshopped on to that bottle who's is it in the middle if the label,
Is that because "Klotz think" that it meets the standard or will,perform adequately

Otherwise its massive false advertising.

Years ago Klotz snowmobile oil was tcw3 certified as were most snowmobiles oils save Bombardier. It was found that tcw3 oils performed terrible in sleds so the oems went to jaso type low ash oils. The pictured klotz packaging is from that old stuff. The new Klotz snowmobile oil is FD certified and not tcw3 certified. Klotz does have a tcw3 certified oil ,but it's not the product in question.

 

[Moparmyway]

Was it dedicated TCW-3 oil or a multipurpose oil that can be used where a TCW-3 is specified?

IIRC, the guy wasnt sure which oil was used ............ my guess is the tree company went to Pep Boys and purchased (by the gallon) Peak TCW-3 oil for $10.99

 

[Ilmater]

Yes, they are, and rhat hasn't been show at all. Stihl spwcifivally says no to multipurpose oils...
Husky, stihl, and echo along with others have FD certified oils. They do not have boat oil certified oils...hint.. hint

Last time I checked, Husky, Stihl, and Echo don't manufacture boats. Hint... Hint...

See the square box with the certifications in them? If it doesnt have that box with lettering its a no go!! MA2 is JASO certification for wet clutch performace standards

Newsflash--not certified =/= subpar quality and a product everyone should avoid:

I just want to clarify something with all this stuff about Rotella T6 being JASO-MA "certified".

It's my understanding that it isn't JASO-MA certified. A JASO-MA "certified" oil has undergone the testing to be allowed to display the certificate on the bottle like what Motul has.

This is the JASO-MA certificate and I believe it's present on some 'motorcycle oils' such as Motul et al.:

Rotella T6 does not have this. They have the API certificate (round stamp on the right) but that's it as far as "certifications" go.

So I guess you could say that people wouldn't use it becuase it is not JASO-MA certified.
Fair enough, the manufacturer "claims" it meet JASO-MA, however this has not been certified. At the end of the day, the manufacturer can "claim" anything they want, right?

At the end of the day, it is a good oil and does seem suitable for motorcycles as plenty of oil analysis' have shown. All I'm trying to do here is to cut through the hype and get to the facts regarding oils that "meet a particular standard" as opposed to oils that "are certified and have undergone certification".

I'm not trying to dump on this product. It's a great product. But you don't just say "it's certified" becuase it isn't. Just like a guy in a white coat in a hospital isn't a "certified" doctor without the proper certificate even though he might have the knowledge to provide you with medical care.

Oh, and FYI I'm not drumming up business for motorcycle oils. Personally, I use Delo 400 15W/40 Multigrade in my 1050 Speed Triple and in my TTR250 dirtbike

You guys do realise that there are alot of motorcycle oils that do not even have the API symbol on the bottle, and sell for premium prices. Big name brands whose bottles say it meets or exceeds API standards. They have been that way for years and apparently it doesn't bother too many people, or bikes for that matter.,,

Here is my take, FWIW. Rotella was designed and is marketed by Shell as primarily a HD truck engine oil. There is a substantial fee that must be paid to JASO for the testing and certification for the MA spec. Shell has determined that it probably not worth the time and money to submit this oil to JASO for certification, however, Shell has examined the JASO MA spec and found that Rotella meets their requirements. Another good example of this is Amsoil. For many years, Amsoil was not API certified because Amsoil did not want to incur the expense of obtaining certification, but they marketed their oil as "meeting" API specs.

Mike

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2647970

 

[KG441c]

Last time I checked, Husky, Stihl, and echo don't manufacture boats. Hint... Hint...


Newsflash--not certified =/= subpar quality and a product everyone should avoid:





http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2647970

Anwser me this ? Whats the most strenuous test that an oil must pass before its rated fd over fa, fb?

 

[KG441c]

Last time I checked, Husky, Stihl, and Echo don't manufacture boats. Hint... Hint...


Newsflash--not certified =/= subpar quality and a product everyone should avoid:





http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2647970

Also for reference I dont use any oils that are Jaso certified and they are all industry top oils? So to pick an oil by Jaso certification for protection of the engine u r pissing in the wind

 

[bwalker]

Last time I checked, Husky, Stihl, and Echo don't manufacture boats. Hint... Hint...


Newsflash--not certified =/= subpar quality and a product everyone should avoid:





http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2647970

Right, they don't mfg boats, that's why their oils are certified to an aircooled standard.
Here we have a guy arguing and he doesn't even understand what the standards mean or what it takes to pass them..

 

[KG441c]

 

[KG441c]

 

[KG441c]

Unless im mistaken the only 3 factors Jaso requires for fc and fd over fa and fb are exhaust smoke, exhaust system blocking requirements, and sulfated ash mass content? Sound familar? EPA???!!!! Lubricity test requirements are the same for all classes

 

[Trx250r180]

Wonder why the guy from Dumonde tech said this would be a good oil for my saw ,Could there be an exception in the tcw oils ,this stuff is no penzoil ,that is for sure ,what does Z1 stand for ? ,the tcw must be watercraft by the discussion here ,But the Z1 ?
His email response .
Hi Brian, both Z-1 and L111 would be excellent for your chain saw. If pricing is a concern then Z-1 would be best. Then L111. They both are excellent. Both burn very clean and have good throttle response with very high protection. Thank you for you support of Dumonde Tech products. Dumonde Design Group Inc.

 

[Trx250r180]

Anyone have any long time use with this stuff ?

 

[bwalker]

Unless im mistaken the only 3 factors Jaso requires for fc and fd over fa and fb are exhaust smoke, exhaust system blocking requirements, and sulfated ash mass content? Sound familar? EPA???!!!! Lubricity test requirements are the same for all classes

Sulfated ash limits are done to limit crown deposits and plug fouling. Sulfated ash actually refers to the test used to determine the amount of mettalics in a sample.

 

[bwalker]

Wonder why the guy from Dumonde tech said this would be a good oil for my saw ,Could there be an exception in the tcw oils ,this stuff is no penzoil ,that is for sure ,what does Z1 stand for ? ,the tcw must be watercraft by the discussion here ,But the Z1 ?
His email response .
Hi Brian, both Z-1 and L111 would be excellent for your chain saw. If pricing is a concern then Z-1 would be best. Then L111. They both are excellent. Both burn very clean and have good throttle response with very high protection. Thank you for you support of Dumonde Tech products. Dumonde Design Group Inc.

View attachment 448858 View attachment 448859

That's a oil formulated for boat use.

 

[bwalker]

Also for reference I dont use any oils that are Jaso certified and they are all industry top oils? So to pick an oil by Jaso certification for protection of the engine u r pissing in the wind

Your also not using oils formulated for boats..

 

[KG441c]

Sulfated ash limits are done to limit crown deposits and plug fouling. Sulfated ash actually refers to the test used to determine the amount of mettalics in a sample.

Wont a higher mettalic content be bad for engine wear?

 

[bwalker]

Wont a higher mettalic content be bad for engine wear?

Wont a higher mettalic content be bad for engine wear?

No, the chief anti wear and detergent compounds are all mettalics.

 

[svk]

Hey guys: We are getting a lot of reported posts in this thread. I understand this topic is very important to a few of you so we want to keep it open. Just a friendly reminder to please stop the personal attacks and re-spelling of profanities to get around the filter.

Thanks and carry on.

 

[Ron660]

Unless im mistaken the only 3 factors Jaso requires for fc and fd over fa and fb are exhaust smoke, exhaust system blocking requirements, and sulfated ash mass content? Sound familar? EPA???!!!! Lubricity test requirements are the same for all classes

Detergency is also different with each class. Also, there's no longer a FA rating. Only FB, FC, and FD.

 

[KG441c]

Detergency is also different with each class. Also, there's no longer a FA rating. Only FB, FC, and FD.

Ya . Lubricity was the same with all 3 classes.

 

[Ron660]

From my understanding if a product has true certification from JASO, the packaging will display as followsView attachment 448818

Yes, the square labeling is required if certification has been met. If the 2-cycle oil is classified or labeled as a "racing" oil usually certification isn't done.