661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[Trx250r180]

I am not sure and really don't care. I just know it does from expiereance.
And the no solvent argument causing it is bunk as I have ran straight castor and it hasn't done the same thing. Ditto with other straight ester oils.

Was this your experience in the dirt bikes ? Or with saws ?

 

[KG441c]

I suspect that K2 uses a light, pretty clean burning ester with PIB as a anti scuff/ performance additive.

So the PIB is actually modifying viscosity to make up for the lower flashpoints?

 

[bwalker]

I've had it. Arguing with you is a waste of time. You know your right no matter what. You provide zero evidence. You have nothing...NOTHING but conjecture, hearsay, rudeness, name calling, and azz backwards logic.


Fact - Stihl Ultra = designed for saws. The flash point is 432F.

Fact - flash point is very relevant....


The flash point does have to do with combustion but there are more important properties that contribute to carbon buildup. The H1-R should give you a much cleaner burn and result in far less buildup than the Stihl oil. The biggest factor in this is the base fluid. Because H1-R is made with all ester base fluids it burns very cleanly. The residue left behind after burning this type of fluid is almost negligible when actually burned where petroleum and some other types of synthetic oils will leave carbon deposits and ash when burned.

The flash point has more to do with how quickly the oil is consumed by the combustion process and how it affects the octane rating of the fuel.



The only oils that have flash points close to the Stihl ultra WHICH was DESIGNED around a chainsaw is H1R and 927.

927 has castor in it- caster sucks.

H1R is pure ester with out solvents. - So there is actually more oil by volume to do the same job as a oil with solvents in it. I've come to conclude that is why in my test, less h1R produced faster times and cooler and more consistent jug temps.

Pure ester/ester only base = burns cleanest - That is why Randy has had success with it.

Guys the flash point alone should have you only considering 927 or h1r. Why you would want to run a lower flash than stihl ultra is beyond me.

I'll post my results on the 660 and 661 temps/oil test. But I'm done posting for now.

I invite you to read through this - there is a lot of awesome non biased info.

http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...1-results-info-condensed.277566/#post-5305420

Do you even know why flash point is listed on a MSDS? Do you know what exactly it measures?
I will give you a hint. Not what your saying it does.
Even if it did your logic is still fubared and by a long shot.

 

[bwalker]

So the PIB is actually modifying viscosity to make up for the lower flashpoints?

What I am saying is most oils are blends made up of various components. Each may have different vsucosities. As such using the viscosity of the blend to extrapolate is flawed.
PIB is a high viscosity anti scuff additive.

 

[KG441c]

Do you even know why flash point is listed on a MSDS? Do you know what exactly it measures?
I will give you a hint. Not what your saying it does.
Even if it did your logic is still fubared and by a long shot.

Ill take a guess. Its a measure of where the oil will flash and evaporate and no protection is available?

 

[KG441c]

What I am saying is most oils are blends made up of various components. Each may have different vsucosities. As such using the viscosity of the blend to extrapolate is flawed.
PIB is a high viscosity anti scuff additive.

Is ester considered a PIB?

 

[bwalker]

What I am saying is most oils are blends made up of various components. Each may have different vsucosities. As such using the viscosity of the blend to extrapolate is flawed.
PIB is a high viscosity anti scuff additive.

And forget flash point. It's useless for what we are discussing and it basicly just tells you the minimum temp that the lowest boiling point component ignites when it is exposed to an open flame. It's only useful for storage and shipping purposes and that's why it's listed on a MSDS. It gives you zero insite into what temp the highest boiling point component component combusts.

 

[bwalker]

Ill take a guess. Its a measure of where the oil will flash and evaporate and no protection is available?

That would be completely false.. The flash point test is ran by placing a sample in a open metal cup. It is heated with a heating element while a open flame is in close proximity. When the vapors given off by the sample are ignited by the open flame this is the flashpoint. So essentially it measures the temp at which the lowest boiling point component flashes and nothing else. This is typically the diluent and really you want your diluent to flash at low temps for several reasons.

 

[Ron660]

I had this discussion with the tech at Maxima about k2. He said the same about the higher flashpt hendering combustion hence producing less energy. Said the lower flashpt in k2 allowed more efficient and complete combustion

The 2-cycle oils I've seen that's sold for "chainsaw" use have lower viscosity values at 100C (usually in the 7-9 cSt range). Will an oil that has a greater viscosity value at 100C (12-19cSt) protect better like Mutol 800, Belray H1R, and Klotz R50? I'd say yes. There's a reason these types of oils are needed in racing applications. But will these racing oils give better performance in ported chainsaws compared to the "chainsaw" oils? The only way to determine that is to conduct field tests comparing both types of oils at different fuel/oil mix ratios like 32:1 or leaner. Which ones give us the fastest speeds cutting? Redbull660 is on the right track with his tests. I personally will choose protection and clean internal parts over a possible increase in performance. I'm not racing anyone in the woods cutting firewood. I'm using a modified chainsaw turning more rpms in the cut than a stock saw so I'll keep using racing oils.

 

[redbull660]

Do you even know why flash point is listed on a MSDS? Do you know what exactly it measures?
I will give you a hint. Not what your saying it does.
Even if it did your logic is still fubared and by a long shot.

you've posted over 200 times on this thread. Zero evidence on any of them. Don't you have anything better to do?

 

[bwalker]

Is ester considered a PIB?

No. PIB= Poly ISO Butene

 

[KG441c]

Ill go out on a limb and say k2, saber, 927, yamalube will be faster in the cut than h1r,800t, and r50

 

[bwalker]

The 2-cycle oils I've seen that's sold for "chainsaw" use have lower viscosity values at 100C (usually in the 7-9 cSt range). Will an oil that has a greater viscosity value at 100C (12-19cSt) protect better like Mutol 800, Belray H1R, and Klotz R50? I'd say yes. There's a reason these types of oils are needed in racing applications. But will these racing oils give better performance in ported chainsaws compared to the "chainsaw" oils? The only way to determine that is to conduct field tests comparing both types of oils at different fuel/oil mix ratios like 32:1 or leaner. Which ones give us the fastest speeds cutting? Redbull660 is on the right track with his tests. I personally will choose protection and clean internal parts over a possible increase in performance. I'm not racing anyone in the woods cutting firewood. I'm using a modified chainsaw turning more rpms in the cut than a stock saw so I'll keep using racing oils.

You will never realize their advantages on a low stressed application like a saw,even a ported one,but you will deal with their downsides if you use them.
Don't assume that the viscosity of a blended product is uniform. Most are made up of various viscosity fluids.

 

[bwalker]

Ill go out on a limb and say k2, saber, 927, yamalube will be faster in the cut than h1r,800t, and r50

I would go out on a limb and say you will see no differance that can't be accounted for by variables.

 

[KG441c]

I would also guess the ester race oils will only protect better in the most severe conditions where they r needed

 

[cuttinties]

$10 for 32oz

Ms 460 mixed 32:1 for the last 2 years.

Oh and it doesn't stink


Also the way a saw is run will dictate build up on the crown from what I've seen. Idle time is a big factor. Argue until you're blue in the face. All a guy needs to really concern himself with is good tune, good chain and a clean air filter. Whether you run 32:1 or 50:1 if you can't do those 3 basic things your saws life will be shortened. If you're not as good at those things as you think you should be use more oil. But it only gives you a little wiggle room, it's not going to save you.

 

[bwalker]

you've posted over 200 times on this thread. Zero evidence on any of them. Don't you have anything better to do?

Its absolutely true. Research how the test is ran and it's exactly as I posted.. the fact you can't grasp this is telling..

 

[bwalker]

$10 for 32oz

Ms 460 mixed 32:1 for the last 2 years.

Oh and it doesn't stink


Also the way a saw is run will dictate build up on the crown from what I've seen. Idle time is a big factor. Argue until you're blue in the face. All a guy needs to really concern himself with is good tune, good chain and a clean air filter. Whether you run 32:1 or 50:1 if you can't do those 3 basic things your saws life will be shortened. If you're not as good at those things as you think you should be use more oil. But it only gives you a little wiggle room, it's not going to save you.

A picture of a crank doesn't tell you anything. What's the piston and exhaust port look like.

 

[redbull660]

Its absolutely true. Research how the test is ran and it's exactly as I posted.. the fact you can't grasp this is telling..

Think I've finally got er figured out!

- none of this actually matters

- none of the testing done or that will be done or that could be done even matters because of all the variables

- you've posted 200+ times telling us we're stupid and or wrong

Ok I'm not worthy!


all hail bwalker and yami lube 2r!

 

[bwalker]

I would also guess the ester race oils will only protect better in the most severe conditions where they r needed

True, and even the most bad asset piped race saw isn't that application.