661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[showrguy]

I think alot of you guys in this thread must be sittin in front of a mirror thinkin to yerselves "how am I gonna argue with this guy" ?????????????
It's another freakin oil thread !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Moparmyway]

I think alot of you guys in this thread must be sittin in front of a mirror thinkin to yerselves "how am I gonna argue with this guy" ??

Maybe some guys are, but when you have your own saws to look at and they tell you all that you need to know, it becomes real easy to see who says the same things ............. its those guys that you learn to trust

 

[KG441c]

Maybe some guys are, but when you have your own saws to look at and they tell you all that you need to know, it becomes real easy to see who says the same things ............. its those guys that you learn to trust

Yep!! Then some people post for what other reason than to be sarcastic and criticize? Whats their point?

 

[Moparmyway]

Yep!! Then some people post for what other reason than to be sarcastic and criticize? Whats their point?

I think you just answered your own question there Keith

I will say one other thing ................. mdavlee builds one stout mutha scratchin snotted up 066 !!

 

[KG441c]

Ive actually learned quite a bit in this thread and learned to appreciate several people here

 

[KG441c]

http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/tech/two-stroke-gasoil-ratios-20502.html

 

[smokey7]

I am pretty happy with my neglected abused saw i got from mybrother inlaw. he ran it on doller store oil. and cant measure to save his butt. I got it flushed everything out and switched it to lucas at 32:1 it nice and oily with a major muff mod and tuned to the edge. dam clean burning too

 

[nk14zp]

Thanks Keith, that looks like a good # to me.

Higher may not always be better. It is like you don't want to run straight 50 wt oil unless your engine bearings have been clearanced!

You do if it's a Harley.

 

[redbull660]

correct me if I'm wrong here...

You simply can't just run 32:1 with every oil. The oils discussed here have a wide range of different properties.

 

[Moparmyway]

correct me if I'm wrong here...

You simply can't just run 32:1 with every oil. .

I believe that you could.
Some oils may offer certain advantages at less oil ratios, while others allow spooge to drip everywhere with higher oil ratios.
But whats wrong with running any oil @ 32:1 ?

We have seen some real dang nice pictures of Lucas @ 32:1 several times in the past 6 months. Virtually no wear, super clean looking exhaust and piston tops.

While I agree that the pics of H1R a few pages back look good for the runtime, I also know that they don't look as good as the pics of Lucas, R50, or 800 off road that's been floating around on a few forums with even more runtime.

Looks good works for some ............... but looks like it wasn't run (virtually no wear, clean inside and out) is what I want for my saws with my cabbage

 

[redbull660]

Obviously you can... I mean heck, I can put my left over 2 gallons of stihl ultra 45:1 mix in my car and it'll run. But it's not ideal. lol

So that's not the point.

The point is, for the max performance, you can not.

 

[Moparmyway]

Obviously you can... I mean heck, I can put my left over 2 gallons of stihl ultra 45:1 mix in my car and it'll run. But it's not ideal. lol

So that's not the point.

The point is, for the max performance, you can not.

Yup .......... now you got me there !!!
Although I would attempt to counter with this; which is more important for your saw(s); max performance or max longevity ?

I suppose each saw might be considered separately in the answer, since there are some saws relegated to GTG and serious competitions sitting next to saws that get run daily in the same barn/garage.

 

[bwalker]

correct me if I'm wrong here...

You simply can't just run 32:1 with every oil. The oils discussed here have a wide range of different properties.

H1r,r50,and 800 are all run st 32:1.in bikes and 800 I'd run down to 16:1 in karts.

 

[bwalker]

Do u believe that 800t at 32to1 offers no more protection against wear in the bottomend than yamalube @ 32:1?

In a saw, no it does not.

 

[bikemike]

Fouling isn't caused by too much oil but rather poor tuning. I have motors that run at 20:1 and the silencers are bone dry. I have seen shifter karts run at 16: very cleanly.

I like your post. Work em hard and they will stay clean. Some ppl just wont get it any bike or quad i had or built never went less than 32to 1 but i didnt putt putt around. Even on a trails bike

 

[bwalker]

Take it for what it is.

Chemist.

P#1... I have tested 20 of the top oil's over the summer in my lab, Viscosity, load pressure under r.p.m., metal to metal friction test, oxygen reactivity test, 4 ball wear test, foam control under heat, carbon build up test, And how refined the oil is.

The R.P.M. Unit (machine) was built with a stainless steel piston that run's up to 16,000 r.p.m's, I add E-10 gas into the port hole and add the oil to a 50-1 mix and run it until the database software on the computer tells me at what r.p.m. the oil break's down, It also tells me the viscosity under load pressure, was there any foam under heat and how much carbon build up under heat. The unit gets to a 116 Fahrenheit. I have noticed that with ethanol the carbon build up is very low with all oils, because ethanol is a strong solvent, cleanser, and drying agent. A good synthetic when using E-10 gas is a must, now with Non-ethanol gas the oils will read about 100 to 150 RPM's higher.

tested: Klotz r-50 Techniplate, This oil is all synthetic, and has very small molecules, And it is a thick oil, Maximum R.P.M. before break down of the oil viscosity and film strength was 15,579, even though the oil broke down, my test unit stayed at 116f, weird, this is the first time my unit did this, pour point tested at -14f, this oil passed my test.

The four ball wear test was designed for gear oils and is useless for two cycle oil. As for the rest of his apparatus nits pretty vague as to what exactly it is and how it functions. It's certainly not an industry recognized test.
The fact of the matter is the RPM any engine will turn before failure is a product of piston speed, not lubrication. Sport bikes for instance Rev out very high and with much higher piston speeds than a two stroke and they are very reliable, even on mineral oil.

 

[redbull660]

H1r,r50,and 800 are all run st 32:1.in bikes and 800 I'd run down to 16:1 in karts.

No offense meant, but I don't care what this stuff does in bikes or karts.

My test clearly showed you can't run H1R in a stock 661 at 32:1. It runs hot and slow. 42:1 runs cooler and faster...by a lot.

Now if I run something with a lower flash point like yamilube, I bet 32:1 with that would perform better relative to other mix ratios of yama lube...40:1 45:1 50:1.


some stuff on Flash point -

If you have a very low flash point it can result in increased combustion, but you are sacrificing lubrication by doing so since your lubricant is burning off before it even reaches the piston. There is a balance point that is necessary to not effect the combustion but still make the lubricant robust enough to reach the surfaces.

The flash point does have to do with combustion but there are more important properties that contribute to carbon buildup.

The flash point has more to do with how quickly the oil is consumed by the combustion process and how it affects the octane rating of the fuel.

 

[bikemike]

Wow congrats ppl these oil theads blow up fast

 

[bwalker]

In a saw, no it does not.

And probably not in anything else either..

 

[bwalker]

No offense meant, but I don't care what this stuff does in bikes or karts.

My test clearly showed you can't run H1R in a stock 661 at 32:1. It runs hot and slow. 42:1 runs cooler and faster...by a lot.

Now if I run something with a lower flash point like yamilube, I bet 32:1 with that would perform better relative to other mix ratios of yama lube...40:1 45:1 50:1.


some stuff on Flash point -

If you have a very low flash point it can result in increased combustion, but you are sacrificing lubrication by doing so since your lubricant is burning off before it even reaches the piston. There is a balance point that is necessary to not effect the combustion but still make the lubricant robust enough to reach the surfaces.

The flash point does have to do with combustion but there are more important properties that contribute to carbon buildup.

The flash point has more to do with how quickly the oil is consumed by the combustion process and how it affects the octane rating of the fuel.

Your test shows it didn't run well in YOUR saw on that particular day.