Wild Knight
ArboristSite Guru
If STIHL is going to sell 2nd rate parts, they should forgo the anal examination used when purchasing genuine STIHL parts.
:bringit:
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Another not so good stihl jug
- Thread starter timberwolf
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Not again...
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spike60
Addicted to ArboristSite
This is gonna sound backwards at first, but think about it: The more of these cylinders that are out there, then the less you Stihl guys have to worry about. If these non-Mahle cylinders are out there in big numbers, as it appears they are, then they are probably OK. If they weren't, then we, (and Stihl), would be seeing/hearing about all kinds of failures all over the country. If there are only a few like that, and you get stuck with one, then you have a reason to be upset. But if there are thousands of them out there, and they are running fine, then maybe there really isn't a problem, right? In the absence of any evidence that they don't hold up, we kind of have to accept that they do. Long term, it's kind of hard to say. But doesn't someone out there have one of these things on a saw with tons of time on it?
And keep in mind, I'm a Husky/Jonsered dealer with a Stihl dealer down the road a quarter mile. It would be in my interest if these things were blowing up. I stand by my beef in the other thread that everybody who buys whatever pro saw we are talking about deserves the same cylinder, (and I would want the Mahle on my saw). But until we see some evidence that these cylinders are guilty of anything other than looking like crap, then we gotta go easy here and not make this into a bigger deal than it really is.
Yeah, it looks pretty bad, (really bad, in fact), and there may be a consistency issue here, because the 660 cylinder in the other thread looks just fine. And those sloppy ports may affect power in a small way too. But you Stihl guys shouldn't too much sleep over this. Besides, the saws belong in the woods, not under the microscope.
And keep in mind, I'm a Husky/Jonsered dealer with a Stihl dealer down the road a quarter mile. It would be in my interest if these things were blowing up. I stand by my beef in the other thread that everybody who buys whatever pro saw we are talking about deserves the same cylinder, (and I would want the Mahle on my saw). But until we see some evidence that these cylinders are guilty of anything other than looking like crap, then we gotta go easy here and not make this into a bigger deal than it really is.
Yeah, it looks pretty bad, (really bad, in fact), and there may be a consistency issue here, because the 660 cylinder in the other thread looks just fine. And those sloppy ports may affect power in a small way too. But you Stihl guys shouldn't too much sleep over this. Besides, the saws belong in the woods, not under the microscope.
Trigger-Time
Addicted to ArboristSite
From the cylinders I have, Stihl has been using non-Mahle cylinders
back to the 056, Below are 8 064's 2-Mahle 6 Non-Mahle, rest of cylinders
also are Non-Mahle, Most of 056's I have have Mahle on them, one 056 in
picture is Non-Male along with 024 and 066 cylinder
.
back to the 056, Below are 8 064's 2-Mahle 6 Non-Mahle, rest of cylinders
also are Non-Mahle, Most of 056's I have have Mahle on them, one 056 in
picture is Non-Male along with 024 and 066 cylinder
Tzed250
Addicted to ArboristSite
:agree2::agree2:
I started the other thread because Henny Penny ran around yelling "The sky is falling!"
I needed to show that a state of national emergency is not needed here.
The proof is in the pudding. If your saw is running fine, then run it.
indiansprings
Firewood Purveyor
Timber, I really like your style and the beneficial tips of this post.
The cylinder dosen't look good, but I think a valid point may have come up,
At one point in my career I was a buyer for a major category with for a very large retail organization. When coming up on an item change it was very difficult to forecast a perfect transition, you would almost invaribialy run out of product before the new product hit the stores. The shelves were empty, sales were lost, customers were upset, upper mngt. was upset, no winners.
I'm not taking up for Stihl but it could be part of the issue, the individual forecasting cylinder needs may be giving Mahle short projections, and when they run out, to keep sales where the need to be they use a substitute jug.
Coming from the corporate world I don't think Stihl is making anymore profit off the products with these jugs, but are just trying to maintain the same margin. With the new EPA requirements, other regulatory compliances going in to effect, marking cost, insurance cost, legal cost all continue to rise each year, cutting into existing margins. Almost all companies are fighting this issue today, I've consulted for several lately and they are facing/struggling against this issue.
The day is coming where we will all be getting saws like this regardless of brand if the retail doesn't shift up. If we want this quality we'll have to pay more. Sad but oh so true.
The only possible way to offset this is (this will probably set off a fire storm)
less expensive labor in the mfg. process. I for one hate to see things go to the far east (China) but a college educated worker make .30 to .50 cents an hour, lives in a company compound, housing furnished as well as a commissary to eat at.
I have been to Japan, Taiwan and China many times, I have been to factories were Mercedes, Cummins, BMW and GM parts were made.
It is possible to get European quality if you'll pay for it. Many of companies have European management and QC processes. You can find the best European and Japanese machine tools in these factories that can hold as good as tolerance as you can find anywhere. In my expierence you can get as good as quality as a European or USA made product thirty percent less.
I hate it personally, but the truth is that 1/3 of the worlds population, USA,
Canada and Europe make wages above $4.00 and hour the other 2/3 operates at $4.00 or less, just reality.
Now the best quality come out of North Korea, if you continue to make mistakes in production in that country, your a organ donor at best at worst your thrown in a hole after your shot. Maybe we need to a cylinder factory open up under the "great leader".
Timber, again you have my respect, great post!
The cylinder dosen't look good, but I think a valid point may have come up,
At one point in my career I was a buyer for a major category with for a very large retail organization. When coming up on an item change it was very difficult to forecast a perfect transition, you would almost invaribialy run out of product before the new product hit the stores. The shelves were empty, sales were lost, customers were upset, upper mngt. was upset, no winners.
I'm not taking up for Stihl but it could be part of the issue, the individual forecasting cylinder needs may be giving Mahle short projections, and when they run out, to keep sales where the need to be they use a substitute jug.
Coming from the corporate world I don't think Stihl is making anymore profit off the products with these jugs, but are just trying to maintain the same margin. With the new EPA requirements, other regulatory compliances going in to effect, marking cost, insurance cost, legal cost all continue to rise each year, cutting into existing margins. Almost all companies are fighting this issue today, I've consulted for several lately and they are facing/struggling against this issue.
The day is coming where we will all be getting saws like this regardless of brand if the retail doesn't shift up. If we want this quality we'll have to pay more. Sad but oh so true.
The only possible way to offset this is (this will probably set off a fire storm)
less expensive labor in the mfg. process. I for one hate to see things go to the far east (China) but a college educated worker make .30 to .50 cents an hour, lives in a company compound, housing furnished as well as a commissary to eat at.
I have been to Japan, Taiwan and China many times, I have been to factories were Mercedes, Cummins, BMW and GM parts were made.
It is possible to get European quality if you'll pay for it. Many of companies have European management and QC processes. You can find the best European and Japanese machine tools in these factories that can hold as good as tolerance as you can find anywhere. In my expierence you can get as good as quality as a European or USA made product thirty percent less.
I hate it personally, but the truth is that 1/3 of the worlds population, USA,
Canada and Europe make wages above $4.00 and hour the other 2/3 operates at $4.00 or less, just reality.
Now the best quality come out of North Korea, if you continue to make mistakes in production in that country, your a organ donor at best at worst your thrown in a hole after your shot. Maybe we need to a cylinder factory open up under the "great leader".
Timber, again you have my respect, great post!
Tzed250
Addicted to ArboristSite
JIT inventory cuts it very close these days. When making parts as a subcontractor for Toyota Industrial Equipment Manufacturing it was standard for our cylinders to be at TIEM for 3 days. Wharehouse, Pre-set for the line, assembly line and out the door. It was 6 days from raw material to installation on the finished product.
Kanban does not allow much wiggle room...
Kanban does not allow much wiggle room...
davido30093
ArboristSite Member
Wrong!
"Now the best quality come out of North Korea"
That is the biggest BS on the whole internet !!!
"Now the best quality come out of North Korea"
That is the biggest BS on the whole internet !!!
FATGUY
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That is the biggest BS on the whole internet !!![/QUOTE]
-that's quite a statement....
-that's quite a statement....
fredmc
Addicted to ArboristSite
I said it before, the far east is capable of quality. Stihl just needs to expect better quality from this supplier or get a new one IMO.
Bust out the pictures (of the products, not the organ donors)...you must have some crappy Korean parts sitting around to be so certain David.
mtfallsmikey
Addicted to ArboristSite
Stoopid question of the day:
how is Mahle pronounced?....Ma-lee, or mail, or what??
how is Mahle pronounced?....Ma-lee, or mail, or what??
In German it would be "mall-eh" where the "eh" is the e-sound in "left".
For example:"Ich habe eine neues zylinder von Mahle gekauft."
In Canadian it would be "mall-eh" where the "eh" is the "ay" sound in hay.
For example: "Sherry's goin' to the mall, eh."
mtfallsmikey
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dankeshein!
Treesareus
ArboristSite Lurker
As one who suffers CAD in a bad way (checks ebay multiple times daily) I have made on intresting observation lately. There seems to be a lot more of the newer 260,440,460 for sale these days. A testament to the sites popularity I guess. Wonder what the sellers are replacing them with. My guess is Dolmar.
I'm new here, but I think that says more about people who don't actually "NEED" those saws, and with todays economy, and unemployment rates, they more likely "NEED" food on the table.
Treesareus
ArboristSite Lurker
I guess that could be true. I do find it strange that its just the 260,440, 460 crowd that are hardest hit though, cause total chainsaw listing numbers seem to be down.
FATGUY
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to buy serviettes because she spilled poutine on the chesterfield.
Lard tunderin' Mary buy, ow kin I unt dooks when she took the cair to get smokes and sairvyettes?
FATGUY
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she best remember the scrunchions for the fish 'n brewis
