Appropriate steps to detur firewood thieves

[Banacanin]

While reasonable and intelligent, there are situations where reason and intelligence are not effective. In philosophy there is reason, non-reason, and unreason. e.g. war, when no other means is effective.
It is definately unreasonable here for you to blame the victim for his pre-facto very reasonable behavior. While you have some points concerning his efforts and the effects on him, a passive, and "reasonable" action at this point accomplishes little.
Now, in the fight ( it is a fight ) do you think that one is worried about libel online ? We are after all, assuming veracity in the telling. It is us who are posting "prank/revenge" ideas, not the OP.

I disagree with your premise, I am not blaming the op for anything. I am asking him to re think how he is handling the situation as they antics of his neighbors seem to have lead him to distraction. With respect to libel - yes I am worried. I am also worried about the OP acknowledging that he is in a state of war with his neighbors. I am worried about someone going before a court or hearing with a real and legitimate complaint only to be told that he did not come before the court with clean hands.

The OP has spent his hard earned money to defend his property- he is installing a fence, lighting and security equipment. If this fails, and the neighbors escalate the conflict- what is he supposed to do hire sentries? Raise a maginot line?

Ultimately he has to reconcile himself that his neighbors are not worth the anger and expense. Once the fence is up he should not let their provocations affect his judgment.

 

[makomakoman]

One other point, stealing firewood may be a misdemeanor in your state as it does not cross the threshhold of some $ value.

You should check that out. If so, you may want to put something that crosses that threshhold on your woodpile(so they can take) to make sure they cannot plead down..

 

[oneoldbanjo]

As much fun as it would be to get "even" and make their life miserable.....I don't think it is the right thing to do. You obviously are a better person and you should not be dragged down to their level. Do what it takes to secure your property and make it clear that they are not welcome to take your property....but avoid the temptation to harrass them. I really think that putting smoke bombs in the wood will only make the hostility worse and they will then have a need to get back at you even more. It may also be that getting the Police involved and proving that they are stealing may end up with the same result......although catching them in the act would certainly be rewarding. As the above post mentions....the theft of some firewood is probably a misdemeaner and would carry very little penalty to your neighbor. (I don't approve of any stealing.....I am just not sure how getting your neighbors to have a criminal record will help them get along with you any better).

I work for a small city as their Engineer/Zoning Administrator/Building Inspector and I have seen neighbor disputes and been dragged into a few when they want the City to pick a side. I am also a licensed land surveyor and have knowledge about right of ways/easements/alleys. If the alley is a dedicated right of way that is recorded on a plat at the County Clerks' Office, the only way it can be vacated is by a legal action by the City - it does not cease to exist because of non-use or someone putting up a fence. If the alley is a not recorded or dedicated to the City - it can cease to exist because of non-use. If you have continued to use a portion of it you may have the right to continue use of the alley. Easements can exist through dedication - or by a "prescriptive use".....which means that if you have used the alley without restriction for an extended period of time you may have the right to continue to use the alley. The length of time required for a prescriptive easement varies from state to state.....in Kentucky it is 17 years. If the alley is a dedicated right of way or easement it should only be necessary for you (or your surveyor) to produce a copy of document that dedicates or records the easement - and to research the records to see if the alley has been vacated/abandoned. If the alley is not dedicated and the neighbors block your access - you will probably have to go to court and have a Judge rule on the status of the alley and your right to use it. You should seek the advice of an attorney about what to do about the chain the neighor installed, as allowing them to block your access and doing nothing could be an acknowledgement that you are giving up your right to access the alley.

I don't see any problem with the alley not being paved and you driving on grass occasionally as long as you are not tearing up or damaging the yard - and I doubt that your city would have any ordinance that would prohibit you from driving in a grass area occasionally when moving firewood, doing yard work, building a fence, etc. All the ordinances that I have seen on this subject require permanent parking and driveway areas to be paved and they prohibit you from continually parking in your unpaved yard - but the ordinances are never used to prevent someone from parking cars in the grass when you have company during a birthday party, Super Bowl party, Mother's Day, Thanksgiving, etc.

I am blessed with wonderful neighbors and we all get along great and help each other whenever we can.......I really am sorry that you are unfortunate to get some that are worthless. Getting your property secure and putting up the fence may be the only resolution to this problem.....until they move.

 

[3fordasho]

Lots of good posts today with good points. As much fun as it is to talk about revenge I will not stoop to that level. Yes I will admit this has been a distraction and may have gone overboard on the camera system. The fence was a wish even before anything was taken. Expenses for the survey and fence would have been incurred regardless. As for the camera setup, If I get them recorded, I will call the police and have them "discuss the issue" with the neighbors. As to the matter of pressing charges, well I'll decide wether to cross that line if I get there. Also once they know they are recorded, the camera system will continue to act as a deterent and keep them away from my stuff.

Good point on the chain. It's still up as I have had no reason to drive back there. This week end I will have a reason - landscaping materials, need to plant some trees back there. I think I will drive up to the chain, unclip it from the quarry's fence and simply place it onto their property line. No damage will be done to it. I will not put it back in place. Sound reasonable?
(remember I have survey results showing it's an alley-they don't have jack)
I have used and maintained the alley for the entire 24 years I have lived there. It was gravel when I moved in, I have allowed the grass to grow and keep it mowed.

As much fun as it would be to get "even" and make their life miserable.....I don't think it is the right thing to do. You obviously are a better person and you should not be dragged down to their level. Do what it takes to secure your property and make it clear that they are not welcome to take your property....but avoid the temptation to harrass them. I really think that putting smoke bombs in the wood will only make the hostility worse and they will then have a need to get back at you even more. It may also be that getting the Police involved and proving that they are stealing may end up with the same result......although catching them in the act would certainly be rewarding. As the above post mentions....the theft of some firewood is probably a misdemeaner and would carry very little penatly to your neighbor. (I don't approve of any stealing.....I am just not sure how getting your neighbors to have a criminal record will help them get along with you any better).

I work for a small city as their Engineer/Zoning Administrator/Building Inspector and I have seen neighbor disputes and been dragged into a few when they want the City to pick a side. I am also a licensed land surveyor and have knowledge about right of ways/easements/alleys. If the alley is a dedicated right of way that is recorded on a plat at the County Clerks' Office, the only way it can be vacated is by a legal action by the City - it does not cease to exist because of non-use or someone putting up a fence. If the alley is a not recorded or dedicated to the City - it can cease to exist because of non-use. If you have continued to use a portion of it you may have the right to continue use of the alley. Easements can exist through dedication - or by a "prescriptive use".....which means that if you have used the alley without restriction for an extended period of time you may have the right to continue to use the alley. The length of time required for a prescriptive easement varies from state to state.....in Kentucky it is 17 years. If the alley is a dedicated right of way or easement it should only be necessary for you (or your surveyor) to produce a copy of document that dedicates or records the easement - and to research the records to see if the alley has been vacated/abandoned. If the alley is not dedicated and the neighbors block your access - you will probably have to go to court and have a Judge rule on the status of the alley and your right to use it. You should seek the advice of an attorney about what to do about the chain the neighor installed, as allowing them to block your access and doing nothing could be an aknowledgement that you are giving up your right to access the alley.

I don't see any problem with the alley not being paved and you driving on grass occasionally as long as you are not tearing up or damaging the yard - and I doubt that your city would have any ordinance that would prohibit you from driving in a grass area occasionally when moving firewood, doing yard work, building a fence, etc. All the ordinances that I have seen on this subject require permanent parking and driveway areas to be paved and they prohibit you from continually parking in your unpaved yard - but the ordinances are never used to prevent someone from parking cars in the grass when you have company during a birthday party, Super Bowl party, Mother's Day, Thanksgiving, etc.

I am blessed with wonderful neighbors and we all get along great and help each other whenever we can.......I really am sorry that you are unfortunate to get some that are worthless. Getting your property secure and putting up the fence may be the only resolution to this problem.....until they move.

 

[cedarman]

and i know weve all been joking about it but when you set your camera up do Make sure you aim your camera away from their property. I can just see you getting jammed up for filming them on their land. im sure a lawyer could get them off if you had them filmed on their land w/out their conscent.

on the woodpile is good, but not on in their yard.

i do want to see these a-holes in action!!!

hang in there buddy, better days to come

 

[GPETER]

Finally a little common sense here. The courts can get this info if the need arises (like the situation escalating) we all have ip's.

 

[Banacanin]

I have used and maintained the alley for the entire 24 years I have lived there. It was gravel when I moved in, I have allowed the grass to grow and keep it mowed.

Legally this can be a really good thing for you

Unless there was some documented permission given to you by an owner at some point, because you were the only one using and maintaining it you may have an easement whereby you can not be prevented from using it, and they would be prevented from fencing it off even if the alley was theirs, which it is not!

I would look into this if I were you

 

[3fordasho]

The only thing the camera sees is my wood pile, a little of the alley and the trees in the quarry behind. I just finished relocating it, less than 20ft from where they will take the wood. Even buried the wire. Finished 1/2 hr before he got back. Ready for action!

and i know weve all been joking about it but when you set your camera up do Make sure you aim your camera away from their property. I can just see you getting jammed up for filming them on their land. im sure a lawyer could get them off if you had them filmed on their land w/out their conscent.

on the woodpile is good, but not on in their yard.

i do want to see these a-holes in action!!!

hang in there buddy, better days to come

 

[stihl sawing]

The only thing the camera sees is my wood pile, a little of the alley and the trees in the quarry behind. I just finished relocating it, less than 20ft from where they will take the wood. Even buried the wire. Finished 1/2 hr before he got back. Ready for action!

This mean no naked drunk chick video...:censored: Aww well good on you for looking at the woodpile.

 

[BigE]

Well, 3fordasho, after having read this entire thread, I feel for ya. (Lot's of pics missing, btw - makes for less fun reading).

I have two good neighbors, and one bad neighbor, so I know how it goes. My bad neighbor was arrested for trying run down his other neighbor with his tractor after a dispute. Bad neighbor's words "It's not like I was going to actually hit him, just scare him".

Anyway, a couple years back we finally told the bad neighbors that we wanted absolutely nothing to do with them, and to not call anymore, try to talk to us, etc. I won't go into details, but the guy was not a nice guy, and our dog had wounds to prove it. Well, we just got some better news - the guy finally kicked the bucket on Monday. Brain tumor. Talked to all the neighbors, and we actually considered having a little celebration party. Now we just gotta wait out the wife (who is just as bitter as her husband was).

A 300' long fence up the side of the property really improved relations and stopped the random trespassing issue we had.

 

[johnnylabguy]

I just finished relocating it, less than 20ft from where they will take the wood. Even buried the wire. Finished 1/2 hr before he got back. Ready for action!

SWEET! (Am I the only one who is a little too excited about this thread?)

I'm fully planning to put everything on the backburner Sunday until I see some drunken theft video and the follow up police confrontation! Man, I love the internet!

Good Luck 3for!

 

[CWME]

SWEET! (Am I the only one who is a little too excited about this thread?)

I'm fully planning to put everything on the backburner Sunday until I see some drunken theft video and the follow up police confrontation! Man, I love the internet!

Good Luck 3for!

:agree2: Definately interested to see how this all pans out for OP.

 

[3fordasho]

Well all I got last night was their cat messing around by the wood stacks.
A good test for the motion sensing, and the event feature allows you to quickly go to the recordings of interest. The night time recordings are lacking however, due to not enough IR source coming off the camera. Hopefully they will do something during the day, which seems to be the case when they've taken wood before. Otherwise I'll need to pick up an additional IR light source, and hook it to the alarm output of the camera system. More ## -another $65 + relay box

Something should transpire this weekend one way or another. Forecast is for awesome party/bonfire weather. I've got a bunch of splitting to do this afternoon. I'll leave it in a pile on the ground until sunday. That should be quite a temptation because not stacked it's very difficult to tell if any is missing. Also plenty of work to do in the back yard - that chain is coming down.

:agree2: Definately interested to see how this all pans out for OP.

 

[cedarman]

I won't go into details, but the guy was not a nice guy, and our dog had wounds to prove it. ad.

I do believe that any man that harms my dogs would be shot on the spot.

hit me, cuss me and spit in my face, but dont touch my dogs or any other family member for that matter.

at least the scum bag dead beat pos is dead now. i hope that tumor gave him headaches 24/7. BOY THAT BURNS ME UP!!!!!

 

[tibikedad]

Could you leave a small light on outside during the night, that would give you just enough light for the camera to work? I would think that would be cheaper than rigging up a special IR light and relay.

 

[3fordasho]

Well folks, I know everyone was waiting for the "photo finish" on this one but it appears it ain't gonna happen..... I was out back splitting the last of my latest score and the neighbor dude walks over. Whole different tone to this conversation vs our last. Guess he finally figured out he didn't bring a horse to this race

Conclusion- I agree to turn off light as long as wood stays put.
He will have no problem to me accessing the rear of my property just like I have for the last 24 years (read when the need arrises). He tried to add the stipulation that I call him before I do, I said no dice.

I will call them if I need to go into the quarry behind their place- I really don't care about this one- I have another way in if I need to .

Also he did get a load of his own wood (from brother in law) so another reason there won't be any action on the surveilance gear.

He does want to leave his chain and sign up (I will unclip when needed) and it does have the advantage of keeping other illegal garbage dumpers out of there.
I am concerned that this could be used against me in that I have given up my "right of way" even though I still use it and sometime later they could permanently block it. Thoughts?


(good thing sams club has a very generous return policy- camera gear can go back for full refund)

 

[SpiralAcacia]

Good news!!!

Glad to hear Mr Neighbor seems to have seen the light (Even though it was in the IR, ha ha). Probably realised, as OP said, he got no horse to bring to this race.

As to your worries about the chain and future right-of-way issues, how about calling him, getting him to SAY the chain does not and will not affect your r.o.w., or else the chain will have to go - and have it all recorded.

Good job!
Rep for patience and being civil sent!

SA

 

[Banacanin]

He does want to leave his chain and sign up (I will unclip when needed) and it does have the advantage of keeping other illegal garbage dumpers out of there.
I am concerned that this could be used against me in that I have given up my "right of way" even though I still use it and sometime later they could permanently block it. Thoughts?


(good thing sams club has a very generous return policy- camera gear can go back for full refund)

Well yeah it could, Someone at the city probably told him to put it up because of the easment. I would not be surprised if that is why he told you you had his permission (permission requested and given indicates an acknowledgment of his right to the land). Your neighbor is a snake who wants to put your easement in doubt and establish his own thereby usurping the alley. You deal with people honestly, and he plays games.


Wouldn't it be great if his chain just plain went missing and you felt bad about it and you put up your own out of the goodness of your heart.

I would wait a couple of sunny weekends to return the gear

edit:

I got to tell you his antics reminds me of a story my dad told me. When he and his brother came to Canada, they lived in a bachelor apartment where they lived mostly on cheap fatty meat and roast cabbage so that they could save money and send some of it back home to their family. They worked a couple of jobs each and on Saturdays they ran a little moving business.

One Saturday they were moving a guy and as they were loading things into my uncles van, a guy threw my dad a satchel and said this can ride with you, but you better be careful not to lose it because your pay is in it. My uncle was about to put it into the van but my dad said no (when my dad was drafted into the Yugoslav National Army, he served as a Military Policeman and he is very good a telling when someone is not telling him the truth). My dad opened the bag in front of the guy and there was nothing in it. The guy wanted to have my dad and uncle move him for free and then accuse them of theft. The point is some people will gladly cheat anyone, even if that person treats them well and is worse of than them.

 

[3fordasho]

He also seemed very interested in mowing the alley behind his property now as well. Hmm.. this from someone who could barely finish his entire yard. I think I will talk to to an attorney to make sure I retain use of the alley.

Well yeah it could, Someone at the city probably told him to put it up because of the easment. I would not be surprised if that is why he told you you had his permission (permission requested and given indicates an acknowledgment of his right to the land). Your neighbor is a snake who wants to put your easement in doubt and establish his own thereby usurping the alley. You deal with people honestly, and he plays games.


Wouldn't it be great if his chain just plain went missing and you felt bad about it and you put up your own out of the goodness of your heart.

I would wait a couple of sunny weekends to return the gear

 

[stihl sawing]

Glad it turned out ok for you, Never a good thing to argue with the neighbors, but.............You could still film the drunk girl and post it.lol