Best new "medium duty" saw?

[Sierra_rider]

In your experience with the mtronic 400, and this may seem like a silly question, have you been able to run it for a few hours, and restart it with decent reliability? I'd guess I can run my wife's husqvarna 440 for about 30 to 45 when it'll run dry, ill refuel and dress the chain and it'll happily hop right back to action.

The complaints for the mtronics, and the auto tuned huskies were that they ran great till they were hot and shut off, alluding that the smart tuning systems were causing them to be out of tune for the purpose of restarting or idling.

Restarts are pretty simple...I won't immediately shut my M-tronics or auto tunes off after the cut, but instead give them several seconds of idle time. That's not a m-tronic habit, but something I do with my adjustable carb saws as well. The plus side with the M-tronic, is if the saw has been shut down for enough time that it's not exactly hot anymore, but isn't cold yet either, they'll start in the "cold start" position. The cold start position is a really easy way to start them. On the autotune Huskies, there is a high-idle you can toggle.

The one place that they can be problematic, is they don't like to be run out of fuel. The first miss/hesitation/bog that I feel, I'll shut the saw down and refill...do that and they restart easily every time. However, if you keep running the saw until they die on their own, they can sometimes be a PITA to restart. In reality, it's a good habit to not run any saw completely empty on fuel.

I don't want to start a Husky vs Stihl war in this thread, but most of my experience is with Stihls and it's mostly positive experiences. My lone autotune Husky is an older 550xp that has had a problematic carb in the past, but the new ones I hear are wayyyy better. My m-tronic Stihls have been flawless(201, 400, & 462.) I've also had quite a bit of time running 261s and 362s, no issues there either. The only "dud" m-tronic I've seen was a veryyy high hour 441...it probably wasn't a m-tronic issue per say, but rather a worn out butterfly on the carb that was causing idle issues.

 

[sundance]

The 261 with the MANUAL carburetor is the best. The 250 is also GREAT.

250 is truly a POS. Almost impossible to start. Runs well "if" it starts. I regret buying one.

 

[moe hos]

I wanted to thank everyone who contributed thoughtful input. I'm going to swing by our local husqvarna/stihl dealer on Monday and see what they have in stock. Again, thanks all!

 

[Grateful11]

250 is truly a POS. Almost impossible to start. Runs well "if" it starts. I regret buying one.

I unloaded mine 15 years ago. Hardiest to start Stihl I've ever used.

 

[oldbuzzard]

I’ll give you a different take on the standard carb vs autotune/mtronic debate. If you are going to be using your saw primarily in one area (maybe your farm) go with standard carb, tune it for that elevation, and be done with it.
OTOH if you saw in a variety of altitudes and temps you would probably like autotune or mtronic.
I’m a saw freak. I have some standard carb saws I only use locally, and autotune and Mtronics I use in the mountains.
Biggest issue I see with autotune and mtronic is people just don’t know how to operate them. I experienced a classic example yesterday - I was leading a saw crew (not professionals) yesterday. The group was all from the lower front range in Colorado which is 5000’ ASL. We were cutting at 7500’, both high and warm. There were both Stihl Mtronics and Husky Autotune having problems, obviously running too rich. I explained to the owners you MUST let them warm up and even then it may take a bit of use to get “dialed in”, but once that happens they usually start first pull all day long.

 

[John Lyngdal]

I actually was just looking at a used stihl 362c and a used 034 pro on Facebook market place. My concern with used, in my experience, and it may be an up here thing, but people only sell equipment once it's totally worn out. That and the "alaska tax." People often sell things at 85% of the new msrp thinking what they have is gold, forgetting it needs work, isn't new and doesn't have a warranty!

Parts shipments often take more than a week so if something breaks, your down. This played in to my decision not to rebuild my 262. I know that if I spent the time, I could find all the parts I need, but anything that breaks in the future will take weeks if not months to rectify and it's not as simple as hopping on ereplacementparts and adding it to my cart.

I called our local saw shop and they couldn't even find a carb kit for it! Laziness on their part imo, but it's a reality.

I took a look at the makita, looks like the 6421 has been discontinued but their 7900 looks like a very good saw. We also have a makita dealer up here that's been decent to work with.

The simple exam of a used Stihl saw only requires a T-27 Torx driver, a spark plug wrench, and a compression gauge. If the saw has been worked long and hard and needs to be rebuilt as a result, the exhaust side of the piston and compression will tell most of the story. The other potential area of concern would be the crankshaft seals, but if the saw idles normally when turned on its sides and inverted they are likely to be in serviceable condition.

 

[ericm979]

The complaints for the mtronics, and the auto tuned huskies were that they ran great till they were hot and shut off, alluding that the smart tuning systems were causing them to be out of tune for the purpose of restarting or idling.

If I make a long cut with my 362CM and kill the ignition immediately, then go to start it a few minutes later, it will be too rich to start. If I let the saw idle for ~5 seconds before shutting it off, this won't happen. That's probably a good idea anyhow as it lets the engine cool off a bit. If I forget, it will start with a couple pulls with the throttle wide open.

If you're paying attention the saw will tell you when the fuel level is low, with a slight catch in the engine or idling high or similar. Each saw is different. It's better to refuel then than to run it hard until it dies because the mixture is too lean to support combustion. The Mtronic will add fuel to compensate so it will probably be lean for a shorter period of time, but it still goes lean, which can cause engine damage. I have run my 362 dry and it's started back up no problem but that's something I try to avoid.

 

[ericm979]

I’ll give you a different take on the standard carb vs autotune/mtronic debate. If you are going to be using your saw primarily in one area (maybe your farm) go with standard carb, tune it for that elevation, and be done with it.

Even here near the coast the temps change enough to make me tune my regular carb saws a couple times a year. Which is not a problem and its something I know how to do, but with the Mtronic saws I don't have to.

OTOH if you saw in a variety of altitudes and temps you would probably like autotune or mtronic.
I’m a saw freak. I have some standard carb saws I only use locally, and autotune and Mtronics I use in the mountains.
Biggest issue I see with autotune and mtronic is people just don’t know how to operate them. I experienced a classic example yesterday - I was leading a saw crew (not professionals) yesterday. The group was all from the lower front range in Colorado which is 5000’ ASL. We were cutting at 7500’, both high and warm. There were both Stihl Mtronics and Husky Autotune having problems, obviously running too rich. I explained to the owners you MUST let them warm up and even then it may take a bit of use to get “dialed in”, but once that happens they usually start first pull all day long.

That's true, but regular carb saws need some warm up too.

I like my Mtronic saws but I'd be ok with regular carb versions. Both are good.

 

[tJKrider]

I actually was just looking at a used stihl 362c and a used 034 pro on Facebook market place.

I had a bad experience with a used 362 m-tronic... Just my bad luck/timing. Worked great at first but when I pulled it out for the first "big" job it wouldn't stay running and then wouldn't restart. After looking at and ruling out other areas I was left with one of the carb solenoids. Maybe that model has improved but it seems like that was a pretty common failure point. I decided that for a saw like that I would rather buy new so I at least know what the saw has experienced.

I'd buy an echo 590, it's a good saw and not a lot of money

The 362 (see above) was way more saw than I needed so I ended up with an Echo CS4910. I have been very happy with it. The 590 seems to be a great value for a 60cc saw and if I ever want/need something larger than what I have will look at those

 

[J.Noss]

Well seeing this thread I had to comment as I've owned a 460 Rancher, bought and sold a 660 Stihl clone, and own a 572 and 550mk2 saw.. the 460 was great, reliable and seemed pretty powerful but it just didn't cut it for the 20"+ wood.. So I bought the Holtzforma 660 and spent the majority of my time having to fix it but I got a feel for how much power it had but got sick of having to work on the oiling system and carb to make it run.. sold it and bought the 572.. best decision ever! Was amazed at the fact that it being a 72cc saw was every bit as powerful in big wood as the 92cc Stihl clone and was pretty light, only 2lb more than the 460 rancher but WAY more powerful! Never had the hot start issues mentioned here and it's good to know the "autotune reset procedure" and "calibration procedure" for the best running.. it involves idling for 5min and then going into a full-throttle rip cut in a log for 75sec, in that time it tests and sets the perfect tune.
The 572 is super good on gas, find it running for like 45min or so on a tank of ethanol free 45:1 mix and has enough power to cut my work time in half compared to the rancher.. after being so happy with it, I decided to buy the 550mk2.. and found out that saw is actually MORE POWERFUL than the 60cc rancher in the wood! And way lighter.. I've had no problems with the autotune and now I'd say I prefer it to a regular carb, and the fuel economy on the autotune saws is fantastic too. So I gotta say I'm a believer in the autotune technology and recommend it from personal experience.. the 460 rancher is a great homeowner saw but after running the 572 and 550 I wouldn't consider getting it instead of the pro series saws

 

[Rich 07830]

I don't have one...I'm just parroting my opinion from all the reading and "research" I have done. It's a never-ending game to try and find the best balance between power, weight, fuel efficiency, ergonomics, reliability, construction, repairability, parts availability, and COST. You want "Medium duty" "Commercial grade" that capably handles "20-24inch bar".... doesn't leave you with a whole lot of options... again, if it were me looking for a one-saw plan, and since I'm a loyal Husqvarna guy, for me the answers to your request would be 562xp on the low end or 365/372x-torq on the high end. Since you're used to the 262 you'll probably feel the weight of the 372 chassis which is why 562 comes into play.

The internet and social media is 80-90% full of typically negative or problematic reviews, expressions, and opinions. We all only ever hear from the very vocal minority of people complaining and expressing negative experiences. All the while there are 10x the amount of people who don't have a issue with any given tool or service. Keep things in perspective. On any given day I can fly upwards of 700 people. If there are 8 or 9 mean/negative tweets about my airline service does that mean that those few individuals speak for the other 691 people who didn't *****? Does that mean my airline is garbage and uncaring/unsafe because 8-9 people had a bad experience? Maybe those people did something incorrect, or maybe their expectations were wrong, or maybe they're just impossible to please people, or..or..or... I think you get my point.

Autotune (and I assume M-tronic too) is not dreaded, especially the newer versions and software, so if I were you I'd seriously consider ditching that close-minded mentality. There are redesigns within the last several years to deal with heat/hot-starting as well as filtration, so at least there is continual innovation being performed.

If you seriously don't want a electronic carb then get a non-AT version of the 562 or 572, or a original 372xp or 362.
357xp is a neat saw but I think a 24" bar is a real stretch, .... even 20" I find I have to be a lot mindful when cutting.... just doesn't have the torque of 60cc class.

Again these are all my unfounded opinions.... but just what I would do in your shoes. I recently rebuilt a 365x-torq and machined the transfer covers to be "372 spec", I was really impressed with that saw and I do regret having sold it...but I have a old 372 and it came down to differences in weight.

Hi Quattro,

Your analogy about people flying commercial does not work, in my experience. I do not know who you fly for. It could well be your airline understands and lives customer service. The huge majority of airlines in my experience do not give a flying flip about their customers! 80%-90% of the people flying most commercial airlines endure. Just because they do not complain does not mean they are happy with the surly, entitled experience many airline employees exude.

I have reason to travel 900 miles one way frequently and 95% of the time drive to avoid the pain of domestic airlines.

Meanwhile, back to chainsaws ; the Echo CS620P is a phenomenal value! I bought one in May and am thrilled! I planned on buying a Husqvarna 555 or 562. Once I started doing my due diligence it rapidly became clear that the value of the CS620P cannot be beat! 4 1/2 horse power running a 24" bar is ideal for 95% of my wood cutting. The saw starts easily hot, tepid, or cold and is a lot cheaper than the Husqvarnas let alone a $tihl!

 

[cary911]

I think the fear of the M-tronic is pretty much unfounded on the newer stuff. It's a pretty simple technology and has been around for years. I own and use several m-tronics, they've all been reliable saws.

For Stihls, I'd be looking at either the 400, or the 362 for a slight cost savings. I own a 400 and have used 362s in the past, the 400 is in it's own class IMO regarding the power/weight ratio. For Huskies, the closest thing would be the 562xp...or the 555 which is a down-specced 562.

I know the Echo 620 is a popular choice online. Very reliable and affordable, but the weight specs look chunky compared to the Huskies or Stihls.

If you care to share more about the 400, just curious.
It seems the 462 is just as close in weight .. however, the local dealer, without going into detail, was just as impressed.
Thank you.

 

[Be Stihl]

Another vote here for the 400. I also have the 261 m-tronic version, both have not let me down. Although I did have a hard to restart when warm situation once on the 261, but now I do as others have stated and let it idle 15 seconds before shutting down and have not had that happen again. I love the 261 but the 400 is extremely smooth and bucks larger hardwood with ease. I only run a 20” bar on mine for hardwoods but I have read several others that have good luck with a 24” bar setup on it, especially in soft woods. Good luck with whatever you purchase, I would definitely buy the 400 again after my experience with it.

 

[SAWMIKAZE]

The standard ms362 was where I was leaning towards looking at stihls, what about a dozen people were reporting though was that they felt the air filter was both undersized and was still letting material through in to the carburetor, do you own one?

The reviews you read about the air filter on a 362 were old, the new HD2 set up is fine.

Between a 400 and 362..it's 100 bucks or so..get the 400. They feel identical and the 400 has a measurable amount of power over a 362.

Find out your dealers level of competency on auto saws and make your decision based on that, it's worth way more than a second in a cut or an ounce in weight, don't let the teenage girls of the internet make up your mind.

 

[sean donato]

562xp or ms 400 if you don't mind spending the extra money. Long story short, carb went out on my 562xp (original carb and a 2012 model) couldn't wait for the parts, till I got done calling around I found a ms400 available at a dealer on the other side of the county and bought it. After about 8 tanks it really came alive. Little lighter then the 562xp and definatly has more power. Very impressed with it. Runs a 20" very well in hardwood and handles a 24" pretty well. I tossed a 24" on it for a big tulip Poplar I cleaned up for a neighbor and haven't taken it off. Good balance, light, nimble in the hands. Av is just as good as any 3 series husqy and the air filter is just wonderful. Been very happy with it so far.

 

[Hirdatron]

Don't really know why anyone would buy a 362 and not a 400? There's hardly any difference in size/weight, and only about £100 extra for a relatively significant increase in performance. Personally I'd get a 400 for your needs, its essentially a 60cc size saw with 70cc performance, and in my humble opinion, the best "medium duty" saw.
*Other saws are available*

 

[Lawless]

MS362 is heavy for the power, MS400 is a hotrod.

250 is truly a POS. Almost impossible to start. Runs well "if" it starts. I regret buying one.

I used to feel the same, hated the saw. A $14 Chinese carb from Amazon turned it into a reliable saw that rides on my ATV all the time.

 

[Hirdatron]

Probably should have checked where op is from. Might make a difference as to what's available and costs? I see a lot of posts saying echo's are good value and cheaper than equivalent Stihl/husky. I'm in UK and an ms362, 560xp, and an echo 621 aren't much different in cost, one certainly isn't significantly less than the other over here.

 

[sean donato]

2 of those models we don't get here in the states. It would be a 562xp and a 620p.

 

[Rich 07830]

I cut 1 1/2 - 2 cords of Ash today alongside the neighbor who is giving us the wood. He was cutting with a MS362. The Stihl cut well & started easily cold & hot. We didn't do time trials but my CS620P held it's own! I'd be curious to see how a 400 does.