Ms461 saw design

[KG441c]

maybe way over thinking this, folks.

treemonkey already alluded to the answer in his posts a couple pages back.

good posts man.
Makes interesting conversation though. I'd still like to know pro cons over 461 transfers vs 460 transfers?
-omb

 

[one.man.band]

from what i've found, the local smog police: currently check only at idle and WOT.

smog @ idle = worth 15%
smog @ WOT = worth 85%

ie. the smog is 'weighted' by those percentages. smog @ WOT is worth a 85% contribution of the total allowable, therefore more important for mfg's to keep WOT smog low. the contribution that idle makes.....seems not as important to them.

european smog police may have different methods than these.

-omb

 

[MustangMike]

If they can reduce emissions on a 362 by 52% and still create more power, they must have done something right.

I know M-Tronic helps, but that can't be all of it.

Unfortunately, I can only ask the questions, not answer them.

 

[Trx250r180]

If they can reduce emissions on a 362 by 52% and still create more power, they must have done something right.

I know M-Tronic helps, but that can't be all of it.

Unfortunately, I can only ask the questions, not answer them.

The 362 is a strato ,but this discussion is about is about the 461 ,and it is not ........

 

[Chris-PA]

The 362 is a strato ,but this discussion is about is about the 461 ,and it is not ........

The 362 is a piston ported strato with Mtronic, and this has neither. This is what makes no sense - why is that needed on one but the other only needs slightly longer transfers?

 

[Mastermind]

Mike, the design of the 362 and the 461 are completely different.

 

[treeslayer2003]

ok, dummy here...........Randy, is the long transfers like a high rise intake?
sorry, i been readin this and i may be gettin dumber lol.
i did however run a 461 today.

 

[Mastermind]

I'm not smart enough to truly understand the reason behind the longer transfers in this engine. I assumed it was because they were gearing up to build a real strato engine on the chassis, and needed the case redesigned.

 

[KG441c]

ok, dummy here...........Randy, is the long transfers like a high rise intake?
sorry, i been readin this and i may be gettin dumber lol.
i did however run a 461 today.

how did u like the 461?

 

[MustangMike]

Thank you guys for the clarification, I'm trying hard but a lot of this is still foreign to me.

 

[treeslayer2003]

how did u like the 461?

love that saw.......i'v had it about a year now. it shares duty with my Randyfied 660.
the 461 is stronger than a 460......stock for stock. i have wondered why, the transfers is the only thing makes sense to me. i think it increases velocity.........but im just a logger. guys like Randy and Brad know better than me.

 

[treeslayer2003]

put it this way, i will probly get another one and send one to be ported and maybe wear a 32.

 

[Trx250r180]

I'm not smart enough to truly understand the reason behind the longer transfers in this engine. I assumed it was because they were gearing up to build a real strato engine on the chassis, and needed the case redesigned.

Any chance the longer transfer area atomize the fuel any more before it hits the piston resulting in a cleaner exhaust burn of less unburnt fuel ?

the 361 and 372 are still fed from the sides right with a shorter runner ?

 

[one.man.band]

I'm not smart enough to truly understand the reason behind the longer transfers in this engine. I assumed it was because they were gearing up to build a real strato engine on the chassis, and needed the case redesigned.

think you're right on the mark.

evolution: just like the ms360 to ms361 to ms362

.........ms460 to ms461 to probably future ms462


-omb

 

[one.man.band]

chris........post that stihl emission .pdf up, if you still have it.

-omb

 

[MustangMike]

Any chance the longer transfer area atomize the fuel any more before it hits the piston resulting in a cleaner exhaust burn of less unburnt fuel ?

the 361 and 372 are still fed from the sides right with a shorter runner ?

Brian, that could make a lot of sense, that is how GM got the 2 valve pushrod Vette engine to meet compliance and increase power, no new technology, just a redesign of the intake and combustion chamber to get a complete fuel mix. (and those motors compete very well with the overhead cam multi valve competition).

 

[Mastermind]

Along with the intake redesign, the combustion chamber, quench clearance, and engine management systems play a huge role in the Vette engine though.......we only have a longer transfer passage here.

 

[Trx250r180]

Along with the intake redesign, the combustion chamber, quench clearance, and engine management systems play a huge role in the Vette engine though.......we only have a longer transfer passage here.

Any explanation of the window on the front of the piston ? the early saws did not have ?

 

[Trx250r180]

Brian, that could make a lot of sense, that is how GM got the 2 valve pushrod Vette engine to meet compliance and increase power, no new technology, just a redesign of the intake and combustion chamber to get a complete fuel mix. (and those motors compete very well with the overhead cam multi valve competition).

Nope long runners not new at all early 60's mopars came with them .......

 

[Mastermind]

Any explanation of the window on the front of the piston ? the early saws did not have ?

I think it just adds more clearance at BDC to keep the piston skirt from infringing on the transfer inlet.