Pioneer chainsaws

[Steve NW WI]

Finally got back at the P60 today. I had to tune up the flywheel side of the crank with a file and a die to get the nut back on. It was hairy for a little bit trying to get the die started straight, but it took.

Cleaned magnet and pickup with fine emery cloth, spark looks good, but still have that dang missing problem. I'm headed back into the reed cage to try to get rid of that small gap I mentioned. I think Ed suggested to look this way, but earlier some others had thought it wasn't a problem.

My plan is to try and work the reed cage back to a flat surface, it's got a bit of a groove in it which is not letting the reed seat completely.

BTW - originality be dammed - I'm sick of slotted head screws. Gonna come home from work tonight with an assortment of socket head screws.

This thing is starting to get me flustered - it's probably why I just walk by it and work on other stuff most of the time. It'll be sweet to get it running right, but it's testing my skills and patience for sure!

 

[DSS]

Finally got back at the P60 today. I had to tune up the flywheel side of the crank with a file and a die to get the nut back on. It was hairy for a little bit trying to get the die started straight, but it took.

Cleaned magnet and pickup with fine emery cloth, spark looks good, but still have that dang missing problem. I'm headed back into the reed cage to try to get rid of that small gap I mentioned. I think Ed suggested to look this way, but earlier some others had thought it wasn't a problem.

My plan is to try and work the reed cage back to a flat surface, it's got a bit of a groove in it which is not letting the reed seat completely.

BTW - originality be dammed - I'm sick of slotted head screws. Gonna come home from work tonight with an assortment of socket head screws.

This thing is starting to get me flustered - it's probably why I just walk by it and work on other stuff most of the time. It'll be sweet to get it running right, but it's testing my skills and patience for sure!

Most if not all of the screws on a pioneer are #12, 24tpi. They are kinda hard to find but fastenal has an assortment up to 3'' long.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Finally got back at the P60 today. I had to tune up the flywheel side of the crank with a file and a die to get the nut back on. It was hairy for a little bit trying to get the die started straight, but it took.

Cleaned magnet and pickup with fine emery cloth, spark looks good, but still have that dang missing problem. I'm headed back into the reed cage to try to get rid of that small gap I mentioned. I think Ed suggested to look this way, but earlier some others had thought it wasn't a problem.

My plan is to try and work the reed cage back to a flat surface, it's got a bit of a groove in it which is not letting the reed seat completely.

BTW - originality be dammed - I'm sick of slotted head screws. Gonna come home from work tonight with an assortment of socket head screws.

This thing is starting to get me flustered - it's probably why I just walk by it and work on other stuff most of the time. It'll be sweet to get it running right, but it's testing my skills and patience for sure!

Hope you get it sorted out soon Steve, does the miss sound like its fuel related? Like is it a steady miss or every so often?
Pioneerguy600

 

[acguy]

Inheritance

I just inherited a Pioneer 970. Anybody want it? It's a basket with no b/c.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Most if not all of the screws on a pioneer are #12, 24tpi. They are kinda hard to find but fastenal has an assortment up to 3'' long.

Not in stock at work, but gonna hit up Fastenal tomorrow on the way to work. It's right on my way. Gotta go recheck, but I thought the recoil screws were 10-24?

Hope you get it sorted out soon Steve, does the miss sound like its fuel related? Like is it a steady miss or every so often?
Pioneerguy600

I'm not real good at descriptions. I'll get the camera out in the am and take a short video of it kinda running. It sounds more like a hit and miss old motor than a 2 stroke right now. Maybe "8-stroking", usually ending in a backfire and dying.

 

[Arrowhead]

Steve, If the reed cage don't do the trick, I can send you a known good coil/flywheel to try out, but I will need them back. At least then you will know 100% what the problem is. The spark may look good, but not be effective. I may have a spare reed cage if you can't straighten yours out.

 

[DSS]

Not in stock at work, but gonna hit up Fastenal tomorrow on the way to work. It's right on my way. Gotta go recheck, but I thought the recoil screws were 10-24?

You could very well be right. I have never had a p60 apart.........YET.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Not in stock at work, but gonna hit up Fastenal tomorrow on the way to work. It's right on my way. Gotta go recheck, but I thought the recoil screws were 10-24?



I'm not real good at descriptions. I'll get the camera out in the am and take a short video of it kinda running. It sounds more like a hit and miss old motor than a 2 stroke right now. Maybe "8-stroking", usually ending in a backfire and dying.

I will wait for the vid but my guess from what you stated is fire interruption, if I can hear it with my own ears I can usually tell much better. If nothing else works then take ED up on his offer to use a spare good coil to try. Replacements are hard to find but they are still around.
Pioneerguy600

 

[Steve NW WI]

Video uploading. Hopefully will have a link before I go to work, otherwise give it an hour or so and go to YouTube and search for my videos under "SteveNWWI" - I don't have too many to go through.

It's started to run a bit better - despite my help. You can still hear the miss, even toward the end, but it holds an idle now, and not missing nearly as bad as it was.

Ed, thanks for the offer. If need be, I'll take you up on it.

Edit: I should add, the video is from "cold" start (but the saw was inside - not cold f'n cold.)

 

[Steve NW WI]

video link, might take a few minutes to go "live"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaWg0FS8LJ4

 

[pioneerguy600]

After watching and listening to your vid, my best guess is fuel and air related, have you done a vac test?
Pioneerguy600

 

[Steve NW WI]

Guesss I'll ask santa for a vac tester. Or more likely make one

 

[pioneerguy600]

Guesss I'll ask santa for a vac tester. Or more likely make one

That is where I would start at , it might just be a leaky reed but I would want to know the rest of the saw was airtight before going on to anything else.

Pioneerguy600

 

[Arrowhead]

I agree with Jerry, sounds like a fuel issue. Did you separate the muffler and check if the screen inside is plugged? Some have the spark screen and some don't. Them P series are famous for leaking where the reed cage meets the case. I usually use a new gasket lightly coated with Ultra Copper. I think your problem is more than that though. Seals are still available if needed. I know you rebuilt the carb, did you do new lines and filter? It sounds like a carb issue, maybe pull it and triple check.

 

[Arrowhead]

This is how I pressure test them. I made 1/4" aluminum plates for the intake and exhaust. I use the lead for my comp tester to hook the Mityvac to. I pressure to about 8lbs, then spray windex on the seals/gaskets and watch for bubbles.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Thanks for the info, Ed. You've been a ton of help with this thing so far!

Carb rebuilt, new lines and filter as well. I pulled the muffler for a looksee at the piston right after I got it, but danged if I can remember if I looked into the muffler itself. I'll pull it again and check.

Gonna pull the carb and reeds tonight, and see what I can do with the reed cage. I'm gonna try and go scrounge up a vac tester or the pieces to make one tomorrow. Should seals be needed, how big of a job are they to do? Looking at some of the case splitting stuff in other threads, it may not be as straight forward as I think?

Do you guys have a favorite gasket material? I just used some plain felt type stuff I had laying around when I put it back together. No sealant on it either. Might be part of my problem as well. Added to tomorrow's list of stuff to get.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Got her torn back down, and snapped some pics. For sure not the muffler, the screen was clean as a whistle. I don't see any need whatsoever for a muff mod on one of these beasts!

Here's the gap in the reeds:

Worn reed plate:

A couple shots of the reed cage, with and without flash. Kinda gives 2 different views, but between the two you can make out the wear pattern pretty well:

I was gonna take a file to the reed cage, but I think a better option would be to take it to my buddy, clamp it in the mill and get a perfectly flat surface. Not sure what to do about the plate yet, might see if I can find some thin spring steel at work and get one made. Earlier there was someone (Propliner?) that had Boyeson make up some reeds. If there's none left out there, maybe I could get a contact from ya and see if they'll make up some more.

You guys have me nervous about leaky seals, and maybe rightfully so. There's a little slop in the PTO side bearing, maybe .005 or so, enough to feel. Might be time for bearings and seals?

I think it's time to go find a laugh or two in Off Topic and call it a night. See you gentlemen tomorrow!

 

[pioneerguy600]

Got her torn back down, and snapped some pics. For sure not the muffler, the screen was clean as a whistle. I don't see any need whatsoever for a muff mod on one of these beasts!

Here's the gap in the reeds:

Worn reed plate:

A couple shots of the reed cage, with and without flash. Kinda gives 2 different views, but between the two you can make out the wear pattern pretty well:

I was gonna take a file to the reed cage, but I think a better option would be to take it to my buddy, clamp it in the mill and get a perfectly flat surface. Not sure what to do about the plate yet, might see if I can find some thin spring steel at work and get one made. Earlier there was someone (Propliner?) that had Boyeson make up some reeds. If there's none left out there, maybe I could get a contact from ya and see if they'll make up some more.

You guys have me nervous about leaky seals, and maybe rightfully so. There's a little slop in the PTO side bearing, maybe .005 or so, enough to feel. Might be time for bearings and seals?

I think it's time to go find a laugh or two in Off Topic and call it a night. See you gentlemen tomorrow!

You could flatten that reed cage out easily by placing a sheet of 100 grit black machine paper on a sheet of glass and using alternate strokes, that uneveness would sand right out. Lots of cylinder heads and cylinder bases have been cut down using this method. Did you ask Propliner if he had any reeds left for your saw, I think it was him that had some made up a year or so back. JJ migh have some or know where to get them, also there is Rottman Sales at ;{ wwwrottmansales.com } they have many parts for the P series Pioneer saws.

Pioneerguy600

 

[propliner]

Steve, I have every part you need. Send me a PM.

 

[propliner]

Guys, I have a P52 cylinder kit for sale on Ebay right now. If you want to bid it's here:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Pioneer-82cc-cyl...027?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4cf3e37e73