Shaver Improvement Forum

[fletcher0780]

Has anyone considered wrapping the chimney below the roof and going to triple wall above? That way, if there was any condensation in between the walls, it would simply drip out the bottom and run down the roof. I am building a shelter / woodshed that will cover the furnace and a year's worth of wood, so I was going to use the tri wall to go up through the roof.

Also, any thoughts on my idea for adding refractory brick that are built into angled sides?

I think that's what I'll do. I had single wall pipe off the top and clogged up quick. I'm waiting on my pipe adapter so I can use 6" pipe on top. I don't know about the angled sides, but I am going to line my floor with fire brick to help retain heat better. I hoping that in addition to re insulating the unit the fire brick will allow me to maintain water temperature longer

 

[yodayoda]

Great idea, I was thinking same thing, using six inch triple wall, cut the roof out to fit it then reseal around top of roof with silicone, and easy to add extra pipe if needed, but you will have 1/2" gap between the two pipes, maybe stuff with rope gasket so creosote does'nt run down in , should keep all heat out of the roof area and control condensation

So you dont think you will get condensation between the two pipes? There seems to be a difference of opinion of where the condensation comes from the roof, the pipe, or both. I was all set to add the pipe as you described, but Fletcher thinks I will get condensation between the pipes, will run down between the two pipes and get the insulation etc. wet. Ive read alot of fletchers posts and respect his opinion alot.

 

[fletcher0780]

So you dont think you will get condensation between the two pipes? There seems to be a difference of opinion of where the condensation comes from the roof, the pipe, or both. I was all set to add the pipe as you described, but Fletcher thinks I will get condensation between the pipes, will run down between the two pipes and get the insulation etc. wet. Ive read alot of fletchers posts and respect his opinion alot.

That's is just a guess, I could be wrong. The thing you need to make sure of is that moisture can't run down either the inside of the insulated pipe, or the outside of the existing chimney. I like the idea of using the rope gasket, but I'd take it one step further and hi-temp silicone on top of the rope. Are you planning to extend the 3-wall pipe all the way up to the top, or just under the roof area? I think all the way to whatever height you need would make the most sense, but you'll probably still want to seal between the top of the existing pipe and your 3-wall to keep crap (moisture) from running down and settling on top of your water jacket. Make sure you document whatever process you follow and post it here, so the rest of us can copy it

 

[yodayoda]

That's is just a guess, I could be wrong. The thing you need to make sure of is that moisture can't run down either the inside of the insulated pipe, or the outside of the existing chimney. I like the idea of using the rope gasket, but I'd take it one step further and hi-temp silicone on top of the rope. Are you planning to extend the 3-wall pipe all the way up to the top, or just under the roof area? I think all the way to whatever height you need would make the most sense, but you'll probably still want to seal between the top of the existing pipe and your 3-wall to keep crap (moisture) from running down and settling on top of your water jacket. Make sure you document whatever process you follow and post it here, so the rest of us can copy it

I was thinking all the way up, in my brain your also losing heat from the pipe being exposed when it's 25 below and the winds a blowin, any heat thats pulled from the pipe is going to pull heat from the whole stove, also I can't find a collar that fits the shaver pipe to put around the chimney above the roof to keep water out, I've resiliconed the seem around the pipe and roof but I think with the expansion/ contraction of the roof and pipe it's not going to last. Thanks for your input Fletcher and everyone else. When I got the stove you could see daylight betwee the pipe and the tin

 

[david78]

Hillbilly Engineering

Thought some of you guys might like to see the damper control I rigged up. In keeping with Shaver's legendary simplicity, it's non-electric. Years ago I bought some barometric type damper controls to replace the spin type on my woodstove. Used them awhile but didn't like them so they've been laying on a shelf in my garage for years. Basically they're a round metal flap mounted on a pivot inside a collar. I put one inside a piece of 4" PVC, siliconed the gap and riveted the whole thing to the side of the blower. When the blower kicks on it pulls the flap open. When the blower is off the counterweight on the bottom of the flap pulls it closed. When it's open I think it's about equivalent to the stock blower flap being open 3/4 to all the way. I put the Ranco thermostat on today. I like it.

 

[fletcher0780]

Thought some of you guys might like to see the damper control I rigged up.

love it! What do you have your ranco set at?

 

[John D]

Thought some of you guys might like to see the damper control I rigged up. In keeping with Shaver's legendary simplicity, it's non-electric. Years ago I bought some barometric type damper controls to replace the spin type on my woodstove. Used them awhile but didn't like them so they've been laying on a shelf in my garage for years. Basically they're a round metal flap mounted on a pivot inside a collar. I put one inside a piece of 4" PVC, siliconed the gap and riveted the whole thing to the side of the blower. When the blower kicks on it pulls the flap open. When the blower is off the counterweight on the bottom of the flap pulls it closed. When it's open I think it's about equivalent to the stock blower flap being open 3/4 to all the way. I put the Ranco thermostat on today. I like it.

Very nice,thats better than mine,since it uses zero wattage to stay open,and is self closing.Any info on where to get,and how much,the rest of the shavers we got haven't had the blower mods yet.

 

[david78]

I wrapped my chimney with radiant barrier foil. It's perforated so it's supposed to let moisture escape. I got a roll of it from www.radiantguard.com. for another project. Here's a picture of my furnace; you can see the foil under the overhang. I haven't gotten around to wrapping the chimney extension yet, but I think I will. The only place I get creosote buildup is at the very top of the extension so I'm thinking insulating might help.

 

[david78]

I set the Ranco at 170. I'll play with it some and see what works best. John D, evidently the company that made mine is out of business; couldn't find them (or a similar product) on the web. It was called the Woodmiser, made by Energy Alternatives, Inc. But like I said, this was probably 20 years ago when I bought it.

 

[trshmn]

It's just my opinion, I'm no expert , but I'd say the shaver pipe produces way to much heat to have condensation, with the triple wall around it, has to stay warm, I agree that the heat loss in the roof area against the cold outer roof is what causes it. the triple wall will set flush against the water jacket, seal around it with hi-temp, if there is moisture on the shaver pipe it should burn off when it fire's .

 

[yodayoda]

It's just my opinion, I'm no expert , but I'd say the shaver pipe produces way to much heat to have condensation, with the triple wall around it, has to stay warm, I agree that the heat loss in the roof area against the cold outer roof is what causes it. the triple wall will set flush against the water jacket, seal around it with hi-temp, if there is moisture on the shaver pipe it should burn off when it fire's .

Thats kinda what I was thinking

 

[John D]

Thats kinda what I was thinking

Same here,I only wish to insulate whats under the roof,I dont care about whats above the roofline,I just want to stop the furnace from dripping water all over everything.I bought a roll of header wrap a few yrs ago for my twin turbos i put on my cummins,and never used it,since the pipe came wrapped,Im driving myself nuts looking for it now.I hate when I know I have something,but cant find it.Im thinking even one full wrap with header wrap,then I can out fiberglass up against that,and I shouldn't have any issues after that.

 

[ngzcaz]

I've mentioned this before but you can wrap solargard around the pipe twice and secure it with aluminum or S.S. tape.. its all you need, very inexpensive, effective and I agree the pipe is way too hot to condense UNLESS you tried to seal all the air leaks trapping the moisture inside. Thats why roofs, walls, basements etc need to be ventilated, if they aren't, they sweat. The pipe probably doesn't sweat when there is a hot fire but could do so when its just idling along.. Just make believe the OWB is a regular house roof. Apply insulation and have ventilation. Your attic should be cold and your house warm.

Is anyone else looking at their woodpile and wondering if they cut enough ??

:greenchainsaw:

 

[John D]

I've mentioned this before but you can wrap solargard around the pipe twice and secure it with aluminum or S.S. tape.. its all you need, very inexpensive, effective and I agree the pipe is way too hot to condense UNLESS you tried to seal all the air leaks trapping the moisture inside. Thats why roofs, walls, basements etc need to be ventilated, if they aren't, they sweat. The pipe probably doesn't sweat when there is a hot fire but could do so when its just idling along.. Just make believe the OWB is a regular house roof. Apply insulation and have ventilation. Your attic should be cold and your house warm.

Is anyone else looking at their woodpile and wondering if they cut enough ??

:greenchainsaw:

Funny you mention the vent,you wouldnt want to seal the roof,as it is now nothing istrapping it inside,its forming inside as fast as its evaporating,due to the constant heat generation.I initially thought about adding a ridge vent to mine,but I'd rather fix the warm roof problem.I wil lget some solarguard today,I was worried about it melting.I figure if i get rid of most of the heat,the inside if the roof wont sweat.House roofs have different problems,not so much sweating,but ice dams at the overhangs,the poorly insulated warm roof melts the snow/ice on it,and it comes down as far as the outside walls,then hits the cold portion overhanging the soffit,and the snow/ice is bonded there.The water cant get past it,so it builds up,eventually once the water under the snow/ice level rises past the shingles overlap,it goes thru to the roof's plywood,and leaks into the home all along the 3-4 ft around the bottom edge of the roof.The OWBs water is coming from inside the roof,I dont think wood can even sweat like metal,I may be wrong though. As for my wood, pile,its a work in progress,I gather wood about as fast as i use it for now.This is my first yr with the OWB,and its been a learning experience,next yr will be easier.It is much easier now than when I first fired it up.

 

[fletcher0780]

Is anyone else looking at their woodpile and wondering if they cut enough ??
:greenchainsaw:

I know I don't have enough wood, every 2-3 weeks I go and cut another trailer load and dump it by the boiler. This week I'm burning maple cut on Monday (unsplit 20" rounds). I can barely lift the rounds, but I get them halfway in the door and start kicking them back. Three of them lasts all night with just coals in the morning.

I think next year, after I get a shed built, I'll start off with a logtruck load and keep replacing the wood as the year goes on. One thing I'll say about my shaver is it will burn anything I can get in the door . The blower is an invaluable option when burning green wood.

Has anybody used the pipe adapter that goes from the shaver 5.5" well casing to 6" stove pipe? Will it accept a double or triple wall pipe?

 

[trshmn]

I had 20 4' x 4' skids stacked about 4-5' high of split mixed wood mostly hard but couple skids of pine, burning since 10/17/08, right now half gone, had three or four days in -0 to single digits but other than that it's been normal, but heat the garage alot, mostly live in garage, wife's smoking room and my tinkering room, TV, stove, fridge (beer), heater, but I lose alot of my heat there, so I'll be insulating it in a few weeks, I think I have enough to get me through but I'm still worried, have no problem with house and dhw, because heat goes to house first and then to garage, on same loop, might change that next year.

 

[John D]

I just finished bring in a bunch of nicely seasoned downed trees.In the last 2 days,I cut and brought about 16-10 ft lenths out of the woods behind my house for now,about a foot -16" diameter on average,a couple cherrys,mostly locust and oak.These logs were hangin in the air seasoning for a few yrs,and are ready to burn now.The skid steer,and tractor are life savers when it comes to bringing in the wood,both big time savers. I still have a full 24'x6' wide,5ft'+ tall shed full.I think ill be fine,as I cut a few hrs a week,since winter is my slow season.
I gotta say I am really loving the exercise,and feeling of using downed dead trees to heat my home instead of foreign sourced oil. One thing I will say is the Shaver doesnt smoke with fully seasoned wood,you can barely tell its running.AS soon as I throw in something wet or some pine,then it will smoke a little.

 

[ngzcaz]

On the plus side, its probably safe to say if you get by this year with wood left over, cut the same amount for next year and you should have plenty ( at least here in NE Pa..................

** goods news.. I completely torn my rotator cuff so I'll be getting a break from wood lifting, splitting and cutting if I decide to get it fixed.. : - (
and it wasnt wood related, putting chains on an old Bolens tractor.

 

[yodayoda]

Man it has been a cold winter so far, my shaver is eatin the wood like there's no tomorrow.. The up side is I should know after this winter my worse case scenario for wood useage

 

[ngzcaz]

Fletch.. kinda curious, do you think you need more draft by putting on a chimney extension ? W/the draft door 1/3 open on my stock blower, there's more than enough and if I went your route with the Ranco mod the outside of my boiler might be red..