Shaver Improvement Forum

[fify59thatsit]

return water

Let's see some pic's and a more detailed description when you get a chance please.

In the Fall I had an idea to pull intake water from the front of the furnace so I torched a hole in the piece of angle iron on the dhw door .you know the one with the two 1/2 round holes cut in it for the coil of copper tubing.
Having done that ,I cut and threaded a piece of pipe with a downward curve,stuck it in the hole,put on a 90* and connected it to the pump.
The results were poor most likely do to air in the heat exchanger.I learned that here just lately.
Anyway,I used the same hole to plumb in the pipe as a return this time with much better results for me .I tried to aim the pipe at the center top of the fire box wanting to put return water on both sides of the water jacket.
This was a test and over the summer I will do it more like your idea .
I do think splitting the return water to both sides would be of benefit.

 

[fify59thatsit]

Very nice! Without changing your OWB temp settings is your water temp coming out of the OWB hotter now?How is it hard to keep temps under 200? Do you still have the stock air door,and blower setup? Most guys here complain they cant get it hot enough due to poor insulation.I have no trouble keeping mine hot either,since my blower mods.I hear water sizzling above the door whenever i load the OWB,ill peak around back,and temp is 178 or so at the back.top where Ive got my copper tube for the temp picup on the Ranco.So your returning water to the front top? I want to run mine to the front,and bottom.Does yours sizzle when your loading it?

Ive had the ranco for a couple three weeks so I did not know water temps had been that high. The old water heater thermostat things readout was hard to see.
The blower is stock for now, solenoid on the way.
I have lots more insulation all around the boiler, big plus.
None of the wood furnaces out there have enough insulation , just my opinion.
I think return water on top where the water seems to be the hottest may calm the boiler down some, after all the idea is to get the return water back up to operating temps to it send back to the house.
This mod is new [ so far no sizzle]so we'll see as we go along.
The mods I have learned here have helped me and my hat is off to you all.
Could be this mod may help some of you. Luck to you. John

 

[fletcher0780]

I have lots more insulation all around the boiler, big plus.
None of the wood furnaces out there have enough insulation , just my opinion.
John

I'm interested in hearing more about your insulation. 1/4" of solarguard wrapped around the water jacket is nowhere near enough insulation (this is not only my opinion, I have verified it with a thermal imager). I was supposed to get Shavers cold weather package (two wraps of solarguard) but there is only one layer on my boiler. I plan to add 1.5" rigid hi density foam boards over the existing insulation, and in between the square tubing frame this summer, not to mention on the bottom of the water jacket. I am documenting all my improvements and will soon post them on a website linked to a few domain names I recently bought

 

[John D]

I may get mine sprayed this summer,Im not sure until i uncover it what path i will take.I have a local dealer here for http://www.icynene.com/icynene-insulation/. I can throw mine on the trailer,and bring it to him to save me money,I may just go this route.
Honestly ,if i find this shaver a home,I may build my own,as I would like the unit to be about 60% larger,and hold double the water.I'd really like to have 24 hr burn times,and i know I can with that sized unit.I want a 24x24 door,and a 42+" round firebox,at least 5 ft long.My brother has a flowjet,and CNC machines,so just like when i built my splitter,machining is no problem,just time making the programs,and setting it up.

 

[fify59thatsit]

insulation

I'm interested in hearing more about your insulation. 1/4" of solarguard wrapped around the water jacket is nowhere near enough insulation (this is not only my opinion, I have verified it with a thermal imager). I was supposed to get Shavers cold weather package (two wraps of solarguard) but there is only one layer on my boiler. I plan to add 1.5" rigid hi density foam boards over the existing insulation, and in between the square tubing frame this summer, not to mention on the bottom of the water jacket. I am documenting all my improvements and will soon post them on a website linked to a few domain names I recently bought

My boiler sets under a shed,the side with the overflow is against the wall of an existing building . It's about 8" away .on the other 2 corners opposite the overflow side I screwed on pole barn outside corners from ground level to ceiling .If you screw on the new os corners edge to the existing corners of the boiler , it creates about 6" of space for more insulation.
I screwed on pieces of barn metal between the new os corners.
The pole barn metal went on better with the ribs facing in.
Batts of insulation went in behind the new metal,and between the boiler and wall of existing building . the new metal box make it easy to pile lots of insulation on top to. I removed the original roof metal .
Inside the back door I used batts of fiberglass. In the future I may insulate the door properly so it seals out the weather.This would mean ducting air to the blower .
This just leaves the front to add more insulation to.More os corners and pole barn metal will fix this.

 

[John D]

My boiler sets under a shed,the side with the overflow is against the wall of an existing building . It's about 8" away .on the other 2 corners opposite the overflow side I screwed on pole barn outside corners from ground level to ceiling .If you screw on the new os corners edge to the existing corners of the boiler , it creates about 6" of space for more insulation.
I screwed on pieces of barn metal between the new os corners.
The pole barn metal went on better with the ribs facing in.
Batts of insulation went in behind the new metal,and between the boiler and wall of existing building . the new metal box make it easy to pile lots of insulation on top to. I removed the original roof metal .
Inside the back door I used batts of fiberglass. In the future I may insulate the door properly so it seals out the weather.This would mean ducting air to the blower .
This just leaves the front to add more insulation to.More os corners and pole barn metal will fix this.

That sounds great! If you can shoot some pics of it,I would appreciate it too. So you were able to get r 19-21 in that6" airspace easily. What did you do in the back with the existing door?

 

[fify59thatsit]

insulation

That sounds great! If you can shoot some pics of it,I would appreciate it too. So you were able to get r 19-21 in that6" airspace easily. What did you do in the back with the existing door?

I used batts inside the back door . This is a little crude, so I might fix the door so it seals up tight and pipe air to the blower.

 

[fify59thatsit]

shaver shed

View attachment 91449

View attachment 91450

 

[fify59thatsit]

shaver shed

View attachment 91451

 

[fify59thatsit]

cheap chimney brush

Here's a CHEAP brush I made out of heavy banding and a 1/2 bolt.
I cut the banding to 5" long, drilled a1/2" hole in the center of the banding,then used flat washers and a couple 1/2" nuts to mount to a 6" long bolt.
I welded this to a length of re-bar for a long handle.
It does a good job swabbing out the flue pipe.

 

[fify59thatsit]

chimney brush

Here's a cheap brush I made from heavy banding,1/2" bolt
View attachment 91652

 

[John D]

Here's a cheap brush I made from heavy banding,1/2" bolt
View attachment 91652

Very nice! I let my flue build up on purpose,as it gets thicker,it insulated the pipe reducing the sweating,and the smaller hole keeps the heat in.I also blocked about 40% of the chimney's opening with a flat steel plate on top,to help try to keep in some heat,I dont think its helping much,but it doesnt seem to be hurting either.

 

[ngzcaz]

Good idea for the brush.. now here's a new problem for me at least. One or two owners mentioned they were having problems keeping the temp up and having to open the damper door opening all the way for the fire. I, on the other hand, had it only open 1/4 to 1/3. However, the last few days the water temp isn't getting high enough even after bumping up the thermostat. The fan runs constantly but the fire just doesnt seem to fire hot enough. Burn times are roughly the same but a lot less heat. I started burning from another pile of red oak about the same time and I didn't see much signs that it was really dry... but I was burning junk half rotten pine w/out a problem. The stacks not blocked and one of the things I'm considering is creosote insulating the firebox. I also raked the fire to ensure the air is getting to the fire. About an hour ago I opened the damper all the way so I should know in an hour or two if its doing any good. Normal water temp is 150 to 160 now its staying around 140 which is barely able to keep up with the heat let alone anything else. And it looks like 17 or 18 is going to be the high for today.

And if anyone else noticed this, when I open the clean out door the fire doesn't get as hot as when you close it. That tells me the blower is probably working as it should because the the air is forced up into the fire. Even though I rake, I'm going to weld a 2 or three inch 3/8 bolt to the rake handle so I can get underneath the fire and get in between the grates any residual ash that may have hardened and is keeping air from getting to the fire. Its either the more recent wood ( doubtful but certainly possible) or the air flow to the wood (more likely ) This is the one thing I didnt expect from this unit.

:monkey:

 

[fletcher0780]

Good idea for the brush.. now here's a new problem for me at least. One or two owners mentioned they were having problems keeping the temp up and having to open the damper door opening all the way for the fire. I, on the other hand, had it only open 1/4 to 1/3. However, the last few days the water temp isn't getting high enough even after bumping up the thermostat. The fan runs constantly but the fire just doesnt seem to fire hot enough. Burn times are roughly the same but a lot less heat. I started burning from another pile of red oak about the same time and I didn't see much signs that it was really dry... but I was burning junk half rotten pine w/out a problem. The stacks not blocked and one of the things I'm considering is creosote insulating the firebox. I also raked the fire to ensure the air is getting to the fire. About an hour ago I opened the damper all the way so I should know in an hour or two if its doing any good. Normal water temp is 150 to 160 now its staying around 140 which is barely able to keep up with the heat let alone anything else. And it looks like 17 or 18 is going to be the high for today.

And if anyone else noticed this, when I open the clean out door the fire doesn't get as hot as when you close it. That tells me the blower is probably working as it should because the the air is forced up into the fire. Even though I rake, I'm going to weld a 2 or three inch 3/8 bolt to the rake handle so I can get underneath the fire and get in between the grates any residual ash that may have hardened and is keeping air from getting to the fire. Its either the more recent wood ( doubtful but certainly possible) or the air flow to the wood (more likely ) This is the one thing I didnt expect from this unit.

:monkey:

What does the fire look like when you first open the door? Does it burn harder the longer the door is open? Is the bottom of the chimney pipe blocked? You may have a plugged up chimney, try banging on it, or attach a chain to a pipe and drop the chain down the pipe a few times. I had this problem twice, the first time my chimney extension was plugged, the second my grate was blocked off with coal dust and wood ash.

 

[ngzcaz]

I just came in from the garage. I welded a bolt on the back side of the raker that Shaver gave us facing exactly opposite ( 180 degrees ) of the Shavers rake. I had to cut the bolt once with the hacksaw when it was too long but now it works great. I went in the clean out door faced the bolt upward and pushed it up as far as it would go and then pushed and pulled the entire length of the grates. This might be something others might want to do. It now serves two functions, one to push/pull the wood from on top and clean the grates of possible clogs from the clean out door. And its cheap.. nothing if you have the bolt and a welder. After I did this I checked the fire, it seems to be roaring now when before it just wasn't doing much. We will see in another hour or so. ( think I said that before ) And the next time I go out, I'll also use it to poke in the chimney a bit from the bottom at least. A third use for the rake...

What I'd really like to do is fire this sucker up and burn up the creosote the around the firebox and along with any creosote that might be in the chimney.
Yes, the fire flares up when the main door is opened but not when just the clean out door is opened. I'm also going to change the wood supply.

:monkey:

 

[ngzcaz]

Well.. I have to admit I gave the chimney only a cursory thought since I dont have an added stack, just the foot long pipe right from Shaver. Turns out it was indeed the chimney right at the last 2 or three inches from the top not quite plugged but enough to limit the draft. Used the rake ( 4th use ) from a small stepladder and I was able to keep the rake at 180 degrees with the pointy side inside the pipe. Just worked it back and forth to break it free. I then ran a chain down to the fire a couple of times.

She is now throwing smoke straight up a couple of feet even in the wind. I expect ( and hope ) to see flames coming out the top before I shut her down a tad. Looks like I'll be going back to the 1/3 opening again. Thanks Fletch for the reminder.. sometimes its the simplest things that get overlooked. It was 62 in the house.. definitely not acceptable for an OWB.

 

[fify59thatsit]

blower

Back during my first winter, I had an episode with little heat output.
The fan wold run a lot and started to push smoke out around the door.
I happened to be out with the boiler when pressure built up in the firebox from a clogged flue causing quite a blast of creosote to ERUPT from the flue pipe.
After witnessing this I made the brush to keep the flue pipe cleaned out.

 

[ShaverFurnace]

Solarguard and the Cold Weather Package

I'm interested in hearing more about your insulation. 1/4" of solarguard wrapped around the water jacket is nowhere near enough insulation (this is not only my opinion, I have verified it with a thermal imager). I was supposed to get Shavers cold weather package (two wraps of solarguard) but there is only one layer on my boiler. I plan to add 1.5" rigid hi density foam boards over the existing insulation, and in between the square tubing frame this summer, not to mention on the bottom of the water jacket. I am documenting all my improvements and will soon post them on a website linked to a few domain names I recently bought

Hi Steve,

The Cold Weather Package gives you Solarguard IN ADDITION to R11 fiberglass in the walls. Since Solarguard is the only insulation that will fit in the walls with the fiberglass AND it handles the three types of heat loss (including radiated heat) - that's why we use it. We don't offer two layers since the manufacturer says it is of little additional benefit.

You should have R50+ in the roof with two layers of 6" vinyl-backed fiberglass and the Solarguard - MORE than most homes have!

The weird thing is that we have never had a single complaint from our customers in Canada, Alaska or Romania, where it's a LOT colder, about heat loss or a furnace not heating adequately

Best regards,

Ben

 

[fify59thatsit]

insulation

Ignore the man behind the curtain and continue to do any and all prudent things you want to improve your outdoor wood boilers.
The curtain thing was a reference to the Wizard of Oz for you younger folks.

 

[fletcher0780]

Hi Steve,

The Cold Weather Package gives you Solarguard IN ADDITION to R11 fiberglass in the walls. Since Solarguard is the only insulation that will fit in the walls with the fiberglass AND it handles the three types of heat loss (including radiated heat) - that's why we use it. We don't offer two layers since the manufacturer says it is of little additional benefit.

You should have R50+ in the roof with two layers of 6" vinyl-backed fiberglass and the Solarguard - MORE than most homes have!

The weird thing is that we have never had a single complaint from our customers in Canada, Alaska or Romania, where it's a LOT colder, about heat loss or a furnace not heating adequately

Best regards,

Ben

Thanks Ben,
I'm not sure about the insulation and how well it works in Romania, but it's not meeting my needs (unless I load the boiler ever 6 hours when it's below 20*). I will remedy it and document it for others that are having the same issues as I've done before.

Any luck on the quote you were preparing for me?