hypothesis
ArboristSite Lurker
I used fiberglass insulation in the door. It seems to have done the job. The outside of the door was cooler to the touch. It lasted for two seasons before the outer edges began to break down and needed replaced.
Shaver Improvement Forum
- Thread starter ngzcaz
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smus
ArboristSite Member
Mine is also stuffed with fiberglass. Seems to do a good job. I can hold my hand on the door without any discomfort at all. About the temp of a hot bath.
I used fiberglass for awhile but it does degrade over time. I've had the ceramic blanket in for a whole winter and no sign of any deterioration. I just slid it in and it has stayed put; didn't have to add any supports.
headleyj
ArboristSite Guru
how's the outside temp of the door with the ceramic compared to the fiberglass?
headleyj
ArboristSite Guru
k thanks man
Shaver
Greetings everyone. I too am a new member with a Shaver 250. Without trying to boor you, I wanted to list my history with the Shaver stoves. I wanted an OWB and had certain things I was loking for. Shaver had all of them. ( Simple ) I bought a 165 I think it was. It was the smaller one. I got it on e-bay for $3400. It shiped quickly and I did the install. 1st, The Shark Bites all leaked and I re-plumbed the old fashioned way. Then I filled it up again and Water poured out into the firebox. It had 3 major leaks. Being a Welding type guy I could have fixed it but it was under warranty. They couldn't find any repair guys who wanted to tear the thing apart in 20 degree weather..Shaver offered me a 250 and I just had to pay the frgt. That worked out great. I did the install again and never looked back. This is my 2nd winter with it. I read in the posts a little verbiage about plugged stove pipes. I have this problem often and spend a good deal of time on the stove running a brush through it. I was wondering what you guys have done to eliminate that other than the the fan mod? I have beautiful seasoned Oak so I do not believe I am causing the problem. Even with seasoned wood, I get Creosote running out the door and blobs in my ash box. Maybe I am not keeping the thing on run mode enough. The simple design and the way it exhausts is a creosote maker I know. I heat 4500 sq ft home and 1000 sq ft shop. It seems to keep up with a load of wood 3 x daily. Another thing I read on here was concern of Heat Exchanger Freeze up because it is so close to the A coil. I have had no trouble with that at all. The HVAC guy who helped me with aquastats also sells Taylor OWB's and he said in all his years he has no issues unless the A Coil gets somewhat pluged and it freezes. I think I will still install drains after reading some of these posts. Also, I had major Steam issues if I didn't Silicone the water coil cover. Sometimes if I boil the thing over it will blow that seal and I have to re-caulk. In the spring I will Fab up a new cover that will be held on with wing nuts. If someone could help me out with the plugged stove pipe issues I would sure appreciate it. Maybe I need an insulated pipe due to cold flue temps causing this I don't know.. Thanks and sorry about the rambling...
Greetings everyone. I too am a new member with a Shaver 250. Without trying to boor you, I wanted to list my history with the Shaver stoves. I wanted an OWB and had certain things I was loking for. Shaver had all of them. ( Simple ) I bought a 165 I think it was. It was the smaller one. I got it on e-bay for $3400. It shiped quickly and I did the install. 1st, The Shark Bites all leaked and I re-plumbed the old fashioned way. Then I filled it up again and Water poured out into the firebox. It had 3 major leaks. Being a Welding type guy I could have fixed it but it was under warranty. They couldn't find any repair guys who wanted to tear the thing apart in 20 degree weather..Shaver offered me a 250 and I just had to pay the frgt. That worked out great. I did the install again and never looked back. This is my 2nd winter with it. I read in the posts a little verbiage about plugged stove pipes. I have this problem often and spend a good deal of time on the stove running a brush through it. I was wondering what you guys have done to eliminate that other than the the fan mod? I have beautiful seasoned Oak so I do not believe I am causing the problem. Even with seasoned wood, I get Creosote running out the door and blobs in my ash box. Maybe I am not keeping the thing on run mode enough. The simple design and the way it exhausts is a creosote maker I know. I heat 4500 sq ft home and 1000 sq ft shop. It seems to keep up with a load of wood 3 x daily. Another thing I read on here was concern of Heat Exchanger Freeze up because it is so close to the A coil. I have had no trouble with that at all. The HVAC guy who helped me with aquastats also sells Taylor OWB's and he said in all his years he has no issues unless the A Coil gets somewhat pluged and it freezes. I think I will still install drains after reading some of these posts. Also, I had major Steam issues if I didn't Silicone the water coil cover. Sometimes if I boil the thing over it will blow that seal and I have to re-caulk. In the spring I will Fab up a new cover that will be held on with wing nuts. If someone could help me out with the plugged stove pipe issues I would sure appreciate it. Maybe I need an insulated pipe due to cold flue temps causing this I don't know.. Thanks and sorry about the rambling...
ngzcaz
ArboristSite Operative
Welcome.. there are 3 threads on these units with a lot of info if you like.
*** the 165 may not have kept up with your heating demands so you may have lucked out getting a 250. Since Shaver was monitoring our posts I would have hoped Shaver would be getting better with QC. Sorry to hear about the leaks. That kind of problem was far and few between with these units.
You shouldn't be blowing the water cover/steaming even though its a poor design ( IMO ) if the overflow is working. Most guys were modifying this because of excessive water useage.
If you burn seasoned wood ( I'm using a mix right now ) it should be minimal. That said, I had terrible creosote my first year but I was burning a lot of less than desirable wood. I shoved some fiberglass in the door and put on a barometric type damper instead of the adjustable holes in the stock slide in the blower. ( Are they still using the adjustable slide with the holes or did they change ? ) The last winter was much better. This year the door is a nice brown even with junk softwoods. It fires much hotter than with the stock slide and then shuts off nicely. I've also found if I keep the wood pulled to the front over the grates it burns better. At the present time I have a zero ash bed but somehow it keeps firing as needed. Contrary to other members it seems the less ash I have the better everything is working. The stock theromstat works much better since the ash isn't insulating the steel and giving wild differences. It was common to see 20 to as much as 30 degree temp swings.
The chimney is reflective of whats going on in your stove. If the door is black and wet, chances are the chimney will be as well. While it may seem a bit of waste, it has to be fired hot to burn off that crap. Seems like yours is choked for air. My blockadges were always above the roof and down maybe a foot give or take. If you give a little more info as to your draft blower/damper setup someone here will most likely have some suggestions for you.
:biggrinbounce2:
*** the 165 may not have kept up with your heating demands so you may have lucked out getting a 250. Since Shaver was monitoring our posts I would have hoped Shaver would be getting better with QC. Sorry to hear about the leaks. That kind of problem was far and few between with these units.
You shouldn't be blowing the water cover/steaming even though its a poor design ( IMO ) if the overflow is working. Most guys were modifying this because of excessive water useage.
If you burn seasoned wood ( I'm using a mix right now ) it should be minimal. That said, I had terrible creosote my first year but I was burning a lot of less than desirable wood. I shoved some fiberglass in the door and put on a barometric type damper instead of the adjustable holes in the stock slide in the blower. ( Are they still using the adjustable slide with the holes or did they change ? ) The last winter was much better. This year the door is a nice brown even with junk softwoods. It fires much hotter than with the stock slide and then shuts off nicely. I've also found if I keep the wood pulled to the front over the grates it burns better. At the present time I have a zero ash bed but somehow it keeps firing as needed. Contrary to other members it seems the less ash I have the better everything is working. The stock theromstat works much better since the ash isn't insulating the steel and giving wild differences. It was common to see 20 to as much as 30 degree temp swings.
The chimney is reflective of whats going on in your stove. If the door is black and wet, chances are the chimney will be as well. While it may seem a bit of waste, it has to be fired hot to burn off that crap. Seems like yours is choked for air. My blockadges were always above the roof and down maybe a foot give or take. If you give a little more info as to your draft blower/damper setup someone here will most likely have some suggestions for you.
:biggrinbounce2:
Creosote Stove pipe.
I am just using the Shaver the way it came as far as the blower is concerned. I am considering the setup you are using. Has anyone used the Stainless Steel Metalbestos type of pipe? I just thought that I was getting some creosote because the flue was cooler than the firebox. Ultimatly I would like to have an extra 5' of pipe on top of my stove. It is difficult finding the pipe size that Shaver uses. I did find a piece and am thinking about welding it on as an extension. I am sure you are correct in saying that the unit needs to be running hot to be at it's best. Winter in MN. is near and it will probably be better.
A different issue. I set a piece of 1/4" x 12" square flat plate on the grate in the front of the stove. That causes the blower air to come up in the middle of the firebox making everything burn much better.
I am just using the Shaver the way it came as far as the blower is concerned. I am considering the setup you are using. Has anyone used the Stainless Steel Metalbestos type of pipe? I just thought that I was getting some creosote because the flue was cooler than the firebox. Ultimatly I would like to have an extra 5' of pipe on top of my stove. It is difficult finding the pipe size that Shaver uses. I did find a piece and am thinking about welding it on as an extension. I am sure you are correct in saying that the unit needs to be running hot to be at it's best. Winter in MN. is near and it will probably be better.
A different issue. I set a piece of 1/4" x 12" square flat plate on the grate in the front of the stove. That causes the blower air to come up in the middle of the firebox making everything burn much better.
smus
ArboristSite Member
I am curious about the use of the plate for the grate.I have thought for some time the grate allowed too much air to the front, and there should be a simple fix. I have not read of any other mods to address this issue. Has anyone else come up with a simple solution. I may scrounge up a plate and try that until I hear of something else. Thx for the idea.
ngzcaz
ArboristSite Operative
Yes, at least one member put on an insulated pipe and seems to be well satisifed. I was under the impression from the posts by Shaver ( Ben ) that the draft blower assembly was going to be/was changed to a setup several members went to, Ranco I think. If they haven't and you have the slide type adjustment I would suggest that be near the top of your mods. It took me a year to change and it works much better than stock. My mod cost about $ 20, others have done it literally for free ranging from soup cans to a dryer vent mod. Others went the other way and got top of the line changes. Bottom line is I haven't seen a post yet that regretted changing it no matter which way they went.
I have no problems with the grates. When the temps drop and the wind howls its nice that ample air is quickly warming the water. The stock slide was either too restrictive, or open too far and you had a fire that might have been at least in part for the steaming issues for some folks. In fact when I had too much of an ash bed it wasn't firing as it should have been and seemed to be choked. I welded a 4 inch bolt on the same side but 180 degrees from the curved end of the poker. It kind of looks like a " T ". The curved end pulls the logs to the front, turn the poker 180 degrees and you can get down in between the grates to insure air flow.
:biggrinbounce2:
I have no problems with the grates. When the temps drop and the wind howls its nice that ample air is quickly warming the water. The stock slide was either too restrictive, or open too far and you had a fire that might have been at least in part for the steaming issues for some folks. In fact when I had too much of an ash bed it wasn't firing as it should have been and seemed to be choked. I welded a 4 inch bolt on the same side but 180 degrees from the curved end of the poker. It kind of looks like a " T ". The curved end pulls the logs to the front, turn the poker 180 degrees and you can get down in between the grates to insure air flow.
:biggrinbounce2:
Damper.
Gents, I have been scrolling through the forum and I can't seem to find pic's or brands of the dampers evryone have added to the Furnace. I am going to insulate under my 250 this weekend after reading your posts. When the guys delivered my boiler, It came on a steel shipping pallet and they said it costs $80 if you decide to buy it. I offered him $10 and he took it. I beefed up the pallet, Supported the legs and left the stove right on it. Now I have 12" of open air under it. I am unsure if I will stuff Glass insulation under it or buy 20 cans of spray foam.
Gents, I have been scrolling through the forum and I can't seem to find pic's or brands of the dampers evryone have added to the Furnace. I am going to insulate under my 250 this weekend after reading your posts. When the guys delivered my boiler, It came on a steel shipping pallet and they said it costs $80 if you decide to buy it. I offered him $10 and he took it. I beefed up the pallet, Supported the legs and left the stove right on it. Now I have 12" of open air under it. I am unsure if I will stuff Glass insulation under it or buy 20 cans of spray foam.
PURPLEBOWYER
ArboristSite Lurker
Fellas,Id appreciate if someone could post pics of the selinoid damper.Thanks
Damper
I paged through Shaver sites and could not find anything on the damper mod. It is certain that everyone agrees that it is job 1. I'm chasing the idea now.
For raking the coals, I took an ordinary garden hoe and welded on 6, 8" log pieces of 1/2" tubing. It's narrow enough to fit on both sides of the stove pipe and the tines are long enough to easily pull coals to the front. It works well.
I took the poker that came with the 250 and cut the end off of it. I heated it up red hot and pounded it flat and I use it to easily remove creosote build up on the sides and bottom. The weight of the poker is such that it really does all the work.
For Ash removal I took a regular flat shovel and trimed it with a plasma cutter and bent it to the pan shape and it works great for ash removal as well as moving logs around in the stove.
I paged through Shaver sites and could not find anything on the damper mod. It is certain that everyone agrees that it is job 1. I'm chasing the idea now.
For raking the coals, I took an ordinary garden hoe and welded on 6, 8" log pieces of 1/2" tubing. It's narrow enough to fit on both sides of the stove pipe and the tines are long enough to easily pull coals to the front. It works well.
I took the poker that came with the 250 and cut the end off of it. I heated it up red hot and pounded it flat and I use it to easily remove creosote build up on the sides and bottom. The weight of the poker is such that it really does all the work.
For Ash removal I took a regular flat shovel and trimed it with a plasma cutter and bent it to the pan shape and it works great for ash removal as well as moving logs around in the stove.
fletcher0780
ArboristSite Operative
John D
Addicted to ArboristSite
I ran my 250 on the shipping pallet for a season....if they haven't changed anything since 11/08 when mine was built,you should be able to slide 3 bats of r19 side by side under there.That's what I did,it worked perfectly...the shipping crate holds them in place.Hardest part is getting an arm under there to slide the insulation between the crate and water jacket....
Holdstihl
ArboristSite Lurker
I am unsure if I will stuff Glass insulation under it or buy 20 cans of spray foam
Shaver should have supplied a bat of insulation cut to fit under your stove. Mine is 20" off the ground (makes it a piece of cake to load and remove ashes) and I just cut some 2X4 slats to support the bat. Make sure your steam leaks are sealed or you'll have soaked insulation causing condensation on the outer tank walls, rust, etc. Mine had a pinhole in a weld at the top corner of the tank from day one. After a week of operation, there was about 20 lbs of water trapped in that lower bat. I repaired the leak and no problems since. I'd stay away from the spray foam, too messy.
Shaver should have supplied a bat of insulation cut to fit under your stove. Mine is 20" off the ground (makes it a piece of cake to load and remove ashes) and I just cut some 2X4 slats to support the bat. Make sure your steam leaks are sealed or you'll have soaked insulation causing condensation on the outer tank walls, rust, etc. Mine had a pinhole in a weld at the top corner of the tank from day one. After a week of operation, there was about 20 lbs of water trapped in that lower bat. I repaired the leak and no problems since. I'd stay away from the spray foam, too messy.
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