Shaver Improvement Forum

[fletcher0780]

Hey Fletch,

Can you seal the cover with the boiler at operating temp? After looking at the blower motor more carefully I see there are alot of water spots on it, it may be that water was the cause of the failure. So I decided not to change it yet, the unit is working pretty good without it right now, I have the draft open all the way, with the blower not working and the warm weather we're having, its going okay. I modified the blower with a solenoid, but I couldn't get the same one you used. The one I bought is smaller, so I mounted right to the body of the blower. I'm going to try and reseal the cover tomorrow, before I change the blower.

I let the temp drop down to 100* when I sealed my cover, too much steam otherwise. The solenoid I have is way overkill, so you should be OK. Take some pics of your set up.

 

[ngzcaz]

I'm hoping w/the supposed warm temps tomorrow I can at least do the chimney and yes a few wraps of solarguard is what I had in mind. If I can touch it and its only slightly warm I'll be satisfied with that for the time being.
I have some left over stainless steel tape from when I made my own insulated pipe to secure it just for test purposes.

The cover is another story. I can think about it till spring when the unit can be shut off w/out burning my fingers. There's no reason why this cant be a five minute or less removal and replacement.. and it opens up possibility's of accurate water temp, easy fast filling of chemicals by drilling holes either on the top or sides of the cover.. heck Shaver already did that on the side for the copper hot water coil... I ordered mine w/out the coil so the holes weren't in the cover. Easy enough to drill what I need. The rubber gasket ( an old thick truck inner tube? ) thats simply compressed by weight ( 2 ten lb or more from an old barbell set might work, but maybe thats too easy ? ) An infrared reading would be in order before I'd trust the rubber.

 

[John D]

Reading this thread has been like looking into my future.I woke up this morning with my temps right around 150 in the house,which is wierd since it wasnt cold last night,and I filled the firebox at 8pm,so i knew id have wood in there.So i go out to find my blower dead. For now i reloaded the firebox with the driest stuff i had,and left the door cracked for 5 minutes,and Ill watch it today,its supposed to be warm,so it may be fine idling all day with damper open 3/4 of the way,which is where it always is.There is water droplets all around the blower from the inside of the roof dripping down the back of the unit,this may have cause the failure,I do not know yet.Fan blades spin freely,Im going out with a DVOM to confirm the Tstat is working and im getting 120VAC to the fan as well as a working N and ground connection.Then I will call Shaver,if its bad.

 

[fletcher0780]

Reading this thread has been like looking into my future.I woke up this morning with my temps right around 150 in the house,which is wierd since it wasnt cold last night,and I filled the firebox at 8pm,so i knew id have wood in there.So i go out to find my blower dead. For now i reloaded the firebox with the driest stuff i had,and left the door cracked for 5 minutes,and Ill watch it today,its supposed to be warm,so it may be fine idling all day with damper open 3/4 of the way,which is where it always is.There is water droplets all around the blower from the inside of the roof dripping down the back of the unit,this may have cause the failure,I do not know yet.Fan blades spin freely,Im going out with a DVOM to confirm the Tstat is working and im getting 120VAC to the fan as well as a working N and ground connection.Then I will call Shaver,if its bad.

If you have power to the blower, tap the aquastat with the back of a screwdriver, I've noticed sometimes they freeze up (good reason to replace it with a digital aquastat).

 

[John D]

If you have power to the blower, tap the aquastat with the back of a screwdriver, I've noticed sometimes they freeze up (good reason to replace it with a digital aquastat).

I've got the digital aquastat here,but i havent got the 3/8" copper tube to make a sleeve yet,and i still have to drill the hole in the top plate.Ive been putting that off too,with being busy with Christmas,and the snow before it.

 

[DLav]

Blower modification

Here is the blower modification I made to my draft blower, basically the same one Fletcher posted, but Grainger didn't have the same solenoid in stock, so I bought a smaller one. It looked small enough to mount directly on the blower, so I gave it a shot. I riveted most of it together, hopefully any slight vibration from the blower won't shake it loose. If it does start to loosen up, I'll mig weld it. Some of the stuff I had laying around, the solenoid was 20 bucks, all together it would be around $30 or so to do.

 

[fletcher0780]

I like it!

Very nice, much better than mine, you didn't even need to rotate the blower. FYI, my damper worked very well today. The temp got up to about 60*, I loaded the crap out of my boiler to see if I could get the water to boil. My boiler is set to shut the damper and blower off at 175, my water got to 185* with no load and no circ. pumps running.

 

[DLav]

I like it!

Very nice, much better than mine, you didn't even need to rotate the blower. FYI, my damper worked very well today. The temp got up to about 60*, I loaded the crap out of my boiler to see if I could get the water to boil. My boiler is set to shut the damper and blower off at 175, my water got to 185* with no load and no circ. pumps running.

Thanks Fletcher, it was your idea. I installed it this morning after resealing the DHW cover. Did your cover come from the factory sealed with silicone? My owners manual indicates that it should have been, but mine wasn't. And it was way out of position, pushed back 2-3 inches on the right side, the insulation is absolutely soaked. I'm gonna have to replace it soon, I was hoping to wait until spring, but I think I should go ahead and do it now.

I purchased a cheap I.R. thermometer from Harbor freight, the readings it gives me really don't add up, I don't think its very accurate. I really need to install gauges or get something better.

Do you have your pump in the house or in the back of your OWB?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[John D]

DLav,very nice setup you made there! Great use of the rivet gun.I'm not sure which to copy now,yours or fletchers,they are both great! I did notice the sol that fletcher used seems way overkill,in fact it draws quite abit of current ,at .43 amps seated,so i was thinking of using a smaller one anyway,just to save electricity,as i need all i can save with both circs running full time.It hit 60+ here today,i had no problem with steaming with my damper open 3/4 of the way.I do have my OWB circ on 24/7,and my indoor boiler loop circ on 24/7 as well.I wonder if this is why my temps dont get as high.I always have water circulating,which keeps hot spots to a minimum,and the combination of keeping all the pipes hot,and the hx,and indoor boiler hot is enough to keep it from getting high on temps.

 

[DLav]

DLav,very nice setup you made there! Great use of the rivet gun.I'm not sure which to copy now,yours or fletchers,they are both great! I did notice the sol that fletcher used seems way overkill,in fact it draws quite abit of current ,at .43 amps seated,so i was thinking of using a smaller one anyway,just to save electricity,as i need all i can save with both circs running full time.It hit 60+ here today,i had no problem with steaming with my damper open 3/4 of the way.I do have my OWB circ on 24/7,and my indoor boiler loop circ on 24/7 as well.I wonder if this is why my temps dont get as high.I always have water circulating,which keeps hot spots to a minimum,and the combination of keeping all the pipes hot,and the hx,and indoor boiler hot is enough to keep it from getting high on temps.

Thanks John, I got the idea from Fletch and it seems to be working great. Before it seemed like the blower was running non stop, but now it appears to cycle on and off like it should. Here is the Grainger part number if you want it, 4X239 the book says it uses 0.24 amps fully seated and it is continuous duty cycle. Also I used the electrical cover from the old blower to make a 'cover' for the solenoid, I had to do a little grinding on it, but I thought it might help protect the solenoid, in the event of a leaking pipe. The mounting brackets are 2" corner brackets from the hardware, the linkage is a 2" strap with the corners ground down, and a 1/8" roll pin. I did have to remove some of the webbing in the blower housing with a die grinder so the rivets and eyebolt would let the cover lay flat, also used threadlocker on the eyebolt and a locknut for the nut on the inside, so it shouldn't come loose and fall into the fan. Good luck with it, one nice thing with this set up, you can build it in the shop watching football and drinking a beer. I know this for a fact.

 

[fletcher0780]

Thanks Fletcher, it was your idea. I installed it this morning after resealing the DHW cover. Did your cover come from the factory sealed with silicone? My owners manual indicates that it should have been, but mine wasn't. And it was way out of position, pushed back 2-3 inches on the right side, the insulation is absolutely soaked. I'm gonna have to replace it soon, I was hoping to wait until spring, but I think I should go ahead and do it now.

I purchased a cheap I.R. thermometer from Harbor freight, the readings it gives me really don't add up, I don't think its very accurate. I really need to install gauges or get something better.

Do you have your pump in the house or in the back of your OWB?

Thanks again for all your help.

No, my cover wasn't sealed from the factory. When you replace the insulation, remove rghe siding from the rear gable end of the boiler, it only takes a few minutes and gives you way more access. My pump is in the basement, I'm using a grundfos that is not rated for outdoor use,

 

[John D]

Ok,I have been busy today.I hoped to get the new aquastat installed and the blower mod done.However due to a few unrelated interuptions,I only got the blower mod done,and i did the 3/8" copper drop pipe line,so tomorrow ill only need to do the electrical end of the stat. The damper mod came out great,it was easy to do,just took some time.I used the 4x239 solenoid,which is much stronger than it needs to be.It actually slams shut and open so loud you can hear it from 50 ft away.Thanks again fletcher,and Dlav for the pics and doing the mod first.Id like to add a cover to the solenoid yet,I may,just too many other things that are more important to get done before the weather gets real cold again.Here are a few shots.

 

[John D]

One additional issue I wanted to bring up is the opening for the blower fan. In all honesty it totally disgusted me to see the poor quality welds,and lack of any type of caring as to what they built.They never even dressed the mounting flange where it meets with the blower.The problem is there was about 1/4" round pieces of weld ,and slag from sloppy welding.they just put on the blower,and tightened the bolts right over it.The blower housing got bent up naturally,and there wasnt even close to being a seal there,so you couldn't dampen it all the way if you wanted too,as there was an air gap almost 1/4" thich 1/2 around it. I knew I wasnt getting a top of line boiler,but every time i work on the shaver I see just more and more poor quality and lack of fit and finish. I cleaned up the mounting flange and used sealer between the blower,and flange so i can get a good tight seal there to slow the burn.

 

[DLav]

One additional issue I wanted to bring up is the opening for the blower fan. In all honesty it totally disgusted me to see the poor quality welds,and lack of any type of caring as to what they built.They never even dressed the mounting flange where it meets with the blower.The problem is there was about 1/4" round pieces of weld ,and slag from sloppy welding.they just put on the blower,and tightened the bolts right over it.The blower housing got bent up naturally,and there wasnt even close to being a seal there,so you couldn't dampen it all the way if you wanted too,as there was an air gap almost 1/4" thich 1/2 around it. I knew I wasnt getting a top of line boiler,but every time i work on the shaver I see just more and more poor quality and lack of fit and finish. I cleaned up the mounting flange and used sealer between the blower,and flange so i can get a good tight seal there to slow the burn.

Hey John,

Glad it worked for you. So far it seems to be helping the efficiency of mine. I've used alot less wood the last couple days, but it hasn't been that cold. The temps are supposed to get back to normal for this time of year, so the coming week should be a good test.

Thats a bummer about your flange, mine was smooth, no probs with that. But when I pulled back the insulation to reseal the DHW cover I could see daylight around half the chimney where the sealant was pulled loose. At least some of my water problems are coming in from outside, the insulation is ruined, so thats my next project. After that I'll get on to the digital aquastat.
Good luck.

 

[fletcher0780]

I've found that setting the on/off differential to 5* instead of 10* seams to give the boiler more "down time". I think it takes too long for the boiler to drop 10* and then it is difficult for the boiler to recover that loss in any decent amount of time. 5* ensures the fire hasn't gone so dormant that it can't be brought back to life in short order, it also seems to smoke less and I didn't notice any change in wood usage. FYI, my aquastat is now set at 170* off, 165* on. I could go down to 150* off, 145* on, except after a run of cold days the only baseboard in my house (apartment above the garage) needs a higher water temp to keep up.

I really like your new blower setup by the way, I think you'll have good luck with it.

 

[ngzcaz]

Shame about those welds. I used to do a bit of stick and mig and we used to call them " grapes ". Maybe you should email some pics to Shaver about the welds and the housing. I used to be proud of the stuff I did, just seems there's a lot of workers who just dont care, and worse quality control either not catching it or caring about it.

I too, had daylight coming in from the chimney but caught it early and Shaver sent me 2 tubes of caulk. My blower wasnt bent but they slopped it with caulk probably to prevent excessive air to the unit. Honestly if they could have shipped me the components at a good price as a kit, I might have given it a shot. But it does work, burns anything and if one likes to mess with stuff, its perfect for an old hod rodder to customize. And apparently there are a lot of them that bought Shavers.. : - )

:greenchainsaw:

 

[John D]

I've found that setting the on/off differential to 5* instead of 10* seams to give the boiler more "down time". I think it takes too long for the boiler to drop 10* and then it is difficult for the boiler to recover that loss in any decent amount of time. 5* ensures the fire hasn't gone so dormant that it can't be brought back to life in short order, it also seems to smoke less and I didn't notice any change in wood usage. FYI, my aquastat is now set at 170* off, 165* on. I could go down to 150* off, 145* on, except after a run of cold days the only baseboard in my house (apartment above the garage) needs a higher water temp to keep up.

I really like your new blower setup by the way, I think you'll have good luck with it.

I think you are onto something with the 5 degree differential. Last night I ran with the stock t stat and the modded blower,the differential must be almost 25 degrees on the stock unit.I have it set on 155,which shuts it down at 175,it swells to 180ish,and doesnt kick back on until 145.Way to wide of a differential. I thought something was wrong last night,I went out at 10pm,since my indoor temps were down to 140,I opened the door and the fire was literally out,it took a few minutes with it open for it to light up,as it did,I heard the loud click of the modded fan kick in.Hopefully today ill have time to hook up the Ranco stat. On the Ranco,did you run 2 sets if power wires into the stat,and do the work inside it? The wiring diagram ony wants you to run the 120V into it from the blower,keeping the N out of the Ranco.Im trying to do this as neat as possible,as i need an electrical inspection soon.I would like to run MC or armourflex/Sch 40 plastic on everything as well.

 

[John D]

I forgot to add that when i had the blower off yesterday,I didnt see a UL or CSA decal or approval on the blower at all,also the ground symbol wasnt normal for US electrical appliances. Maybe i missed it,as i was kind of in a hurry to get it together,but I was wondering if anyone else seen a UL decal on theres.What also made me suspicious is the size of the junction box,its too small to be legal IMO.Me adding 2 more wires for the solenoid doesnt help any,but the fit inside ,and are all far enough to keep from touching near the wire nuts. I dont think my inspector will look at the blower itself,or anything that looks to be done at the factory ,probably just the incoming sch 40,and my work tieing it in,but neverthe less I did notice it.

 

[fletcher0780]

you need to run a hot and neutral into the ranco seeing it runs off 120v. I just jumpered off the hot to the "com" on the the relay and then ran a wire off the "NO" to the blower/solenoid. So total you'll have two black wires (one hot, one switched), and one white neutral wire coming from the ranco.

My wiring is less than neat, but I plan on stripping the siding this Spring to do the spray foam insulation. I'm still debating if I'll pull all the plumbing and crap off the back to remove the rear panel, or just tape off the critical components and spray foam over it. I do want to raise my boiler like 8-10" so the door is higher, so I may just bite the bullet and disconnect everything.

Spring to do list:
-Line floor with firebrick
-insulate firebox door with firebrick or ceramic
-raise boiler 8-10"
-remove all siding and spray foam insulate entire unit (including bottom)
-build some type of shed to cover boiler/wood pile
-add 6-8' of insulated chimney pipe
-clean up wiring
-tie in fill line and domestic water coil to hot water tank in garage

 

[DLav]

Before I bought mine, I was talking to an older gentleman that has one and he suggested that I raise it so that the door was at least waist level. He said, "you might not need it now, but when you get to be my age, your back will thank you for it". I raised mine 12" off the pad and the door level is just above my waist, makes it nice for loading the wood. I'm not real tall 5'6'', so if your going to the trouble of raising it and your taller than me, you might want to go at least 12''. I layed a course of 8'' concrete blocks, then put a 4'' solid concrete block on top, along the back I used a 4'' block on its side to box around the pipes.