Shaver Improvement Forum

[berry5]

yeah i done the steam mod worked great. we are burning the same wood most cut from the same tree i do burn a lot of locus and dog wood the rest is the same. we are going cutting tomorow. the stoves were made 8 months apart he has got the best bed of coals in his they fall out of the stove when he opens the door mine just makes ash hardly any coals i can hear mine boiling from 60 feet away when its under a load it will get to thumping really loud.

 

[fletcher0780]

is your blower door open more than his?

 

[modn]

It sure sounds like he has a bigger load on his which makes his work more rather than idle.....bigger house or less efficient house? How much wood is he going through compared to you. What kind of burning time does he have compared to you?

 

[Windwalker7]

Any pics of the Ranco install?

 

[Windwalker7]

Let's see if I got this right?


For the Ranco install, I drill a hole and insert a piece of copper tubing caped at the end. I guess this is my dry well.


I drill a hole approx. 8" in and to the left of the DHW cover plate. The capped copper tubing should be about 13" long.


How do you seal this copper tubing in place, assuming I'm right so far?


The tenp probe from the Ranco goes into this dry well?


Any one consider making a dry well type cap for the other outlet pipe that is not in use? Just an idea.

 

[fletcher0780]

Any pics of the Ranco install?

Not a great picture, but here's mine. The temp probe is attached via an 8ft wire. Originally I used the bolt that held the original aquastat in place to hold the probe against the water jacket, but the reading lagged and was erratic. The probe really needs to be in a well. I borrowed another members idea and use a 1/4" piece of 14" long copper capped on one end, and flared at the other. Drilled a hole in the top of the water jacket and slid the "well" and probe in until the flare butted against the jacket. I then sealed everything up with hi-temp silicone. The thing is very very accurate and the 5* temp differential makes a huge difference.

Any one consider making a dry well type cap for the other outlet pipe that is not in use? Just an idea.

I tried that and got a 15* temp difference, it really needs to be in the jacket far

On another subject, is anyone having problems with ash/coals building up and choking out the bottom of the chimney so your shaver can't breathe?

 

[John D]

On another subject, is anyone having problems with ash/coals building up and choking out the bottom of the chimney so your shaver can't breathe?

Funny you said that,today i noticed im getting quite a bit of coals/ashes in the back,and i dont burn back there anymore,since i have been keeping the fire up front.I did empty some ashes out today.I made a ton of ashes on christmas day,I threw an entire bag of wrapping paper in the OWB,and of course it burned very,very slow,and made a ton of ashes.
I did the same install on the Ranco,I used a 1 ft long copper tube,and its very accurate as well.Ill try to get pics once it warms up a little,right now i cant even open my back door,the R19 is frozen to the inside of the door,thanks to the dripping roof.

 

[ngzcaz]

Regarding the t stat, I also put in an inexpensive 1 inch or so probe that has the temp shown on the front into the pump area so this should be very accurate. This is the water going directly from the OWB into the house. This reading can differ greatly from the stock t stat. I think part of the problem is that different areas of the holding tank water differ in their temperature so while it may be hot as heck on the top the bottom may be way off. What you guys may have hit on is the " sweet spot " so to speak of the water jacket. The stock stat simply relies on heat transfer thru whatever thickness the metal happens to be. ( Did anyone else have trouble with the stock giant screws trying to push the back flush with the metal ? ) I ended up shimming one side and the screw with the other to get it to lie flush.. dumb setup.

Regarding ash and coals, I have taken 2 small childs flat snow shovels about 2 inches high so far. I think a lot of mine are going up the stack. Unfortunately, if the ashes are going there a lot of heat is going up as well. Thats one of the reasons you guys have me shopping for a draft blower that closes completely when the unit isnt calling for heat. Mine just keeps chugging away and while it may not reduce wood consumption, it probably wouldnt adversely affect it either. I may see a much quicker recovery rate since my draft door is only open 1/4 way since I started it. Obviously the draft blower cant fire it as quickly when its restricting the air flow to the unit.

It would be interesting if anyone actually kept tract on lets say a 20 degree day how often the unit is firing and what the time interval is between firings, and of course how long the firings last until it shuts off.

 

[Windwalker7]

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

In regards to ash build up, I noticed a lot of build up in this area also. I usually rake as much of it as I can over the grate. The ash falls through and the bigger coals start to glow if the blower is on.

It really gets glowing after about a minute, even has blue flames coming off of it. I just throw some full rounds on top and close the door.

 

[Windwalker7]

Funny you said that,today i noticed im getting quite a bit of coals/ashes in the back,and i dont burn back there anymore,since i have been keeping the fire up front.I did empty some ashes out today.I made a ton of ashes on christmas day,I threw an entire bag of wrapping paper in the OWB,and of course it burned very,very slow,and made a ton of ashes.
I did the same install on the Ranco,I used a 1 ft long copper tube,and its very accurate as well.Ill try to get pics once it warms up a little,right now i cant even open my back door,the R19 is frozen to the inside of the door,thanks to the dripping roof.

Are you sure you got that DHW cover plate sealed all the way around. I'm even wondering if your flue has a crack in the weld where it goes into the water jacket.


Sounds like you got a lot of condensation in there. There has to be something that isn't sealed up letting all that moisture in there from the water jacket.

 

[fletcher0780]

I actually had so much ash in my 290 that when I shut the door after loading the blower would force ash out the chimney for a second. After a few minutes of having the door shut, the fire would choke itself out and when I opened the door again I got a large puff of smoke followed by a fireball The problem is a bit worse with the larger Shavers I imagine because the firebox is so deep. I need a longer handle on my hoe so I can reach back there all the way and clear the ashes from the chimney. Like John (and the rest of you I'm sure) I had lots of Christmas trash to dispose of, and I even went one step further and cleaned of my fridge and about 2 months of junk mail/catalogs. The ash hid from me in the back of the boiler until I really needed the heat when the temps dropped to 0* last night. In the future I'll need to pay better attention to this.

Regarding the Ranco, I sent an email to the distributor to find out if they could recommend a remote temp display that works with their unit. I'd really like one that had low/high temperature alarms that would tell me when I need to reload the boiler, or if I was getting close to boiling the water.

I'd like to thank everyone who's participating in this thread, I think if we keep working together we'll all be very happy with the performance of these heavy duty (but not refined) boilers. There's another site, with a forum dedicated to Shaver boilers that I'd like to share (some of you may already visit that site). It doesn't get a lot of traffic, but is a great place for us to archive our ideas and experiences as they're not so likely to get lost there. http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?board=18.0

 

[trshmn]

I also have the build up in the rear, but rake them to the front and it really seems to be working great, just refill with wood and temps always stay up, burning split cherry, oak, hickory, little bit of maple and pine, also some small rounds of the hard woods, still have all stock parts on but might wait till summer to make all the mods talked about on here, alot of great ideas that shaver should have already had, I've seen on here that some were saying they were burning junk half rotten stuff and doing fine, so I tried today to put 8-10" rounds of pine that were down for 6-8 months, they were wet and I had the normal hot bed of coals going, did'nt take long for the temp in house and garage to drop, went up to owb and good bed of coals were about gone, took the wet rounds out and refilled with my normal split wood and almost back to normal now. regarding the stock t-stat I did'nt use the big bolt I put some hi-temp silicone around the outside edge of it and stuck it on, did'nt put it on the sensor part of it , been holding great, but I agree there is no way you can get accurate temps out of that, that's why change is coming!!!!

 

[fletcher0780]

I've seen on here that some were saying they were burning junk half rotten stuff and doing fine, so I tried today to put 8-10" rounds of pine that were down for 6-8 months, they were wet and I had the normal hot bed of coals going, did'nt take long for the temp in house and garage to drop, went up to owb and good bed of coals were about gone, took the wet rounds out and refilled with my normal split wood and almost back to normal now.

I think the junk wood burning needs to be limited to mild days (above freezing). I've burnt some nasty soggy crappy pine, just to dispose of it, but it was on a 40* day so I didn't notice any issues.

 

[John D]

Are you sure you got that DHW cover plate sealed all the way around. I'm even wondering if your flue has a crack in the weld where it goes into the water jacket.


Sounds like you got a lot of condensation in there. There has to be something that isn't sealed up letting all that moisture in there from the water jacket.

My cover is sealed perfectly,the insulation is dry under the solarguard.There is no crack in my flue,its the heat from the chimney.The underside of the roof is soaked with heat from the single wall chimney.Im still baffled by it,as the only place single wall is acceptable is outside a structure,not inside.I know mine isnt the only one,i went to see my cousins big Shaver 340 running the other day,it wasnt even up 24hrs,and the entire roof was wet underneath like mine.He iso nly loading it 1/2 full of wood,and in the center.The 340 is huge,about 18" longer than my 250.I feel bad for him,as his looks like it was put together by the same guy who welded my blower flange.His door also doesn't shut nearly as good as mine.I may get some pictures,you wont beleive how poor his siding was installed,and trimmed,and his rear door is so racked you need to shut it and open it with a prybar.

 

[John D]

I think the junk wood burning needs to be limited to mild days (above freezing). I've burnt some nasty soggy crappy pine, just to dispose of it, but it was on a 40* day so I didn't notice any issues.

I agree with this,or at the minimum,set it on top of the seasoned hardwood.Even then,I find the crappy stuff takes 2 days to fully burn up sometimes.I dont use the rear of my 250,so any unburned crap i just push to the back,and it slowly burns up.I also find my boiler does so much better on cold days,it doesnt like to idle,and runs much better with something to df course this burns more wood,but it seems to operate much better.
Its been 2 full days since the damper mod,and it is hard to tell if its reducing wood usagem,but i think its actually burning more wood this way,as ive only got 2 positions,idle(which is inefficient,as it doesnt make enough heat to maintain temps),and wide open which is inefficient,and my heat goes up the chimney.before i had the damper cracked 3/4 open as the "idle" position,and it ran at very steady temps this way,with a big load the fan would come on,and it ran a little harder.This is just my guess,but i think a nice slow steady burn would use more of the woods energy than full idle smoldering.So i think i may try oening it a touch,just to give me more time between cycles,but not enough to coause steaming on warm days.i know this will take a few days of experimentation.

 

[DLav]

I installed the Ranco stat yesterday and set it at 165 with a 5 degree differential, last night when I checked it was 179, blower not running. Tonight it was 181 with the blower off. Shouldn't it be closer to 170 ish?? Also seems to be using alot of wood, but it is in the teens and the winds been blowing like crazy. I don't know how long the blower had been off when I checked it. But temp swing was the reason I got away from the old stock stat.

You guys that have the Ranco stats, are they holding pretty close to your set point? Maybe I have another problem.......geeeeez I hope not.

 

[DLav]

I agree with this,or at the minimum,set it on top of the seasoned hardwood.Even then,I find the crappy stuff takes 2 days to fully burn up sometimes.I dont use the rear of my 250,so any unburned crap i just push to the back,and it slowly burns up.I also find my boiler does so much better on cold days,it doesnt like to idle,and runs much better with something to df course this burns more wood,but it seems to operate much better.
Its been 2 full days since the damper mod,and it is hard to tell if its reducing wood usagem,but i think its actually burning more wood this way,as ive only got 2 positions,idle(which is inefficient,as it doesnt make enough heat to maintain temps),and wide open which is inefficient,and my heat goes up the chimney.before i had the damper cracked 3/4 open as the "idle" position,and it ran at very steady temps this way,with a big load the fan would come on,and it ran a little harder.This is just my guess,but i think a nice slow steady burn would use more of the woods energy than full idle smoldering.So i think i may try oening it a touch,just to give me more time between cycles,but not enough to coause steaming on warm days.i know this will take a few days of experimentation.

I'm kinda thinking the same thing John. When it was warm the blower mod seemed like the cat's a55 but now that its cold, I'm wondering about it. I'm using more wood now than I was. I'm thinking about changing the linkage to something adjustable and instead of being wide open, only going half or 3/4. And adding the screw like you suggested before so that it has a little air when idling. Let me know how it goes.

 

[fletcher0780]

I installed the Ranco stat yesterday and set it at 165 with a 5 degree differential, last night when I checked it was 179, blower not running. Tonight it was 181 with the blower off. Shouldn't it be closer to 170 ish?? Also seems to be using alot of wood, but it is in the teens and the winds been blowing like crazy. I don't know how long the blower had been off when I checked it. But temp swing was the reason I got away from the old stock stat.

You guys that have the Ranco stats, are they holding pretty close to your set point? Maybe I have another problem.......geeeeez I hope not.

Mine stays very close to the set points, but I have quite a heating load and cheap underground pipe. The other day it was almost 60* and my boiler got up to 180* with the damper shut. on the 60* days in the fall before the damper I'd be at 210* and above, so I'll take 180* My friend has a central boiler and his will go up to 190+ with the damper shut. I think a 15* overshoot is acceptable when considering we're trying to regulate wood burning. One thing you can try is to limit the amount your door opens with the damper activated.

By the way, I'd be ecstatic if I could get 181* on a day in the teens.

 

[blakey]

I will admit that I haven't read the whole thread but I was wondering how much the Shaver units are selling for? Is it that much of a savings over other brands? You guys don't seem too upset about having to do all this work to get them to run properly. You shouldn't have to babysit these things, just load wood and go on with your life. Not trying to be a jerk, I just can't believe the issues you guys have to deal with that should have been part of the basic design.

 

[Windwalker7]

I will admit that I haven't read the whole thread but I was wondering how much the Shaver units are selling for? Is it that much of a savings over other brands? You guys don't seem too upset about having to do all this work to get them to run properly. You shouldn't have to babysit these things, just load wood and go on with your life. Not trying to be a jerk, I just can't believe the issues you guys have to deal with that should have been part of the basic design.

Yes, they are about $1000-$1500 cheaper than other brands. But they have the thickest fire box of any.