the all aussie dribble thread!

[deye223]

My CZ527 in .222" and Win 70 in .22/250 40° Ackley Hornet took a bit more work to get that accurate. All the CZ needed was a good action bedding and floating whereas the Mod 70 took that plus a 27" Kreiger barrel.



By the way those 302's are a good donk mate.
Old Alan Grice eh? The only bad thing he ever did was beat my favourite Skyline GTR's around Bathurst in the early 90's in a Commodore if I'm not mistaken

A long lost rellie of my old man was a bushranger too. Fred Ward or "Captain Thunderbolt" - I'm not making that up either. Unfortunately I was one upped by a classmate at high school who's last name was Bonney. He was related to Ned Kelly. At least Fred was known as a gentleman.

is the hornet supposed to be there or is it one i have not herd of

gday matt had a cz 527 .222 it was the same i beded that thing and it shot the same 1/2 moa that stock timber was soft .this will probably open a can of worms i have never seen a mod 70 shoot better than 1 to 1.5 moa yet even the varmint modles

hay ya not sayen south oz is full of crims are ya

 

[MCW]

A long lost rellie of my old man was a bushranger too. Fred Ward or "Captain Thunderbolt" - I'm not making that up either. Unfortunately I was one upped by a classmate at high school who's last name was Bonney. He was related to Ned Kelly. At least Fred was known as a gentleman.

is the hornet supposed to be there or is it one i have not herd of

gday matt had a cz 527 .222 it was the same i beded that thing and it shot the same 1/2 moa that stock timber was soft .this will probably open a can of worms i have never seen a mod 70 shoot better than 1 to 1.5 moa yet even the varmint modles

hay ya not sayen south oz is full of crims are ya

Oh crap you're right. It is not a Hornet at all and thanks for picking that up! I'm just that used to saying Ackley Hornet for some stupid reason that I made a typo
That CZ527 is a great rifle and has really proven itself pulling all nighters shooting roos. Economical, accurate, reliable, and relatively quiet compared to my .25/06's or .22/250 Ackley. As you're only pulling headshots it's more than accurate enough out to a few hundred metres. Everyone keeps saying "Get a .223" but that's only cause they've never run a .222 - in the real world they perform exactly the same. With longer bullets and faster twists on a range they may have an edge but everything a .223 can do in the field a .222 can do as far as my experience goes (dedicated .223" fans are probably disgusted at this comment ). One cartridge I'd like to try when the CZ wears out is a .222/.17 or .222/.204 as I reckon they'd be great.
Yeah I'm not a big fan of the Model 70's (post 1964) but bought this one as a .22/250 with a visually clapped out barrel for $300. The rest of the rifle was like new, no joke! Anyway I was actually really surprised that even with a knackered looking bore it shot just over inch groups with handloads. I ended up bedding and floating it and getting a Kreiger 1:12 (hmmm, maybe it was 1:10?) barrel imported from the US. Sprinter Arms in Hahndorf (SA) chambered and fitted it. 27" was as much as he could get out of that particular blank. It's only a sporter weight barrel. That guy has one of the widest range of reamers around with some really funky wildcats there. I spent two hours just reading the reamers to read what he had. Because I'd already bedded and floated it and it was a similar profile to the old barrel it didn't need refloating and it is only the action that is bedded.
Sprinter make their own barrels and I've had a few of them. All have been very accurate but the cut rifling finish is pretty rough and they have been bastards to clean. I asked him about lapping barrels and he said that he's never noticed a difference with accuracy. I felt like saying "Yeah but have you ever cleaned the mongrels?".
Only issue was that he chambered it with a pretty long throat and it won't shoot for sh*t with projectiles seated too far off the lands. I now have to seat the 55gn Ballistic Tips right out and can therefore only fit one up the spout and one in the mag as they are too long for any more rounds to fit in the mag. I need to do more reloading as I can't even remember the load but know it's using AR2209 -the Redding dies are only set up for that projectile anyway with the right overall length dialled in. I have all the load data in my shed and used to remember that sort of stuff straight off the top of my head. I use AR2213SC in the .25/06 with 100gn Ballistic Tips and AR2207 in the .222 Rem with the cheapest, accurate 50gn soft points I can find (currently Sierra 50gn SP).

Oh yeah and heaps of crims here mate - certain areas are getting worse every day. Ferals are moving in everywhere to our region due to the previously empty housing trust homes. The government is just saying "move here" so they do. Stealing and dealing drugs on their way.

 

[deye223]

Oh crap you're right. It is not a Hornet at all and thanks for picking that up! I'm just that used to saying Ackley Hornet for some stupid reason that I made a typo
That CZ527 is a great rifle and has really proven itself pulling all nighters shooting roos. Economical, accurate, reliable, and relatively quiet compared to my .25/06's or .22/250 Ackley. As you're only pulling headshots it's more than accurate enough out to a few hundred metres. Everyone keeps saying "Get a .223" but that's only cause they've never run a .222 - in the real world they perform exactly the same. With longer bullets and faster twists on a range they may have an edge but everything a .223 can do in the field a .222 can do as far as my experience goes (dedicated .223" fans are probably disgusted at this comment ). One cartridge I'd like to try when the CZ wears out is a .222/.17 or .222/.204 as I reckon they'd be great.
Yeah I'm not a big fan of the Model 70's (post 1964) but bought this one as a .22/250 with a visually clapped out barrel for $300. The rest of the rifle was like new, no joke! Anyway I was actually really surprised that even with a knackered looking bore it shot just over inch groups with handloads. I ended up bedding and floating it and getting a Kreiger 1:12 (hmmm, maybe it was 1:10?) barrel imported from the US. Sprinter Arms in Hahndorf (SA) chambered and fitted it. 27" was as much as he could get out of that particular blank. It's only a sporter weight barrel. That guy has one of the widest range of reamers around with some really funky wildcats there. I spent two hours just reading the reamers to read what he had. Because I'd already bedded and floated it and it was a similar profile to the old barrel it didn't need refloating and it is only the action that is bedded.
Sprinter make their own barrels and I've had a few of them. All have been very accurate but the cut rifling finish is pretty rough and they have been bastards to clean. I asked him about lapping barrels and he said that he's never noticed a difference with accuracy. I felt like saying "Yeah but have you ever cleaned the mongrels?".
Only issue was that he chambered it with a pretty long throat and it won't shoot for sh*t with projectiles seated too far off the lands. I now have to seat the 55gn Ballistic Tips right out and can therefore only fit one up the spout and one in the mag as they are too long for any more rounds to fit in the mag. I need to do more reloading as I can't even remember the load but know it's using AR2209 -the Redding dies are only set up for that projectile anyway with the right overall length dialled in. I have all the load data in my shed and used to remember that sort of stuff straight off the top of my head. I use AR2213SC in the .25/06 with 100gn Ballistic Tips and AR2207 in the .222 Rem with the cheapest, accurate 50gn soft points I can find (currently Sierra 50gn SP).

Oh yeah and heaps of crims here mate - certain areas are getting worse every day. Ferals are moving in everywhere to our region due to the previously empty housing trust homes. The government is just saying "move here" so they do. Stealing and dealing drugs on their way.

sounds like you need to set that barrel back a thread or two . well if you like cheap pills i use nosler shots 50g $80 for 500 on roos and bats (wombats) with a permit of course a bit hard for rabbits and such they don.t blow up so they ricochet all the time but on hard targets like heads & bats and other unmentionable targets they are the ducks guts. oops better say chainsaw at least once
and on the triple duce 2207 or H4198 for the us readers in my rifle 22.5 g 3250 fps same as a factory .223

 

[deye223]

oops did not see this bit you know me and firearms same around here drugs have stuffed the place good and proper it's a shame it is a nice place to be 3 nights ago me and the boys were just sitting and watching a sambar hind while out culling she just did not care we were there because we don't hunt sambar there not untill there are 10 or more at the moment i only no of the stag 2 hinds and one yearling

 

[MCW]

sounds like you need to set that barrel back a thread or two . well if you like cheap pills i use nosler shots 50g $80 for 500 on roos and bats (wombats) with a permit of course a bit hard for rabbits and such they don.t blow up so they ricochet all the time but on hard targets like heads & bats and other unmentionable targets they are the ducks guts. oops better say chainsaw at least once
and on the triple duce 2207 or H4198 for the us readers in my rifle 22.5 g 3250 fps same as a factory .223

Yeah the Nosler Shots are excellent and that was my last batch of projies. I normally buy about 1000 at a time. Previous to that I was using Speer TNT's but they blow up a bit too fast on animals like roos. I know people say "but you hit them in the head" and that is correct but I've had a few too many roos looking directly at me where I've hit them on the tip of the nose with really lightly built projectiles - I've had a few instances where it has blown their face off but hasn't killed them outright. Same thing happened a couple of times with 90gn Speer TNT's out of my .25/06 on roos so I haven't used TNT's since. Devastating on things like rabbits though.

By the way I get about 3300fps with I think 22gns of AR2207. I can't remember the last time I chronographed them but I've had the same load for about 12 years in that rifle apart from changing projectiles.

sounds like you need to set that barrel back a thread or two

It would have to rechambered though then mate. In fact I'm not even sure if he had a seperate neck reamer. I think it was one unit so can't change the throat It hasn't actually proved to be too much of a problem as I am normally just sitting back sniping things with it.

 

[deye223]

sounds like clymer reamers . i chronograph all me loads at least you know were you stand . if a roo is faceing me i shoot in the throat takes out the spine and shuts em down before they hit ground i shoot all me deer in the neck they just fall were they are standing if i can't hit them there i dont take the shot theres all ways next time

 

[MCW]

sounds like clymer reamers . i chronograph all me loads at least you know were you stand . if a roo is faceing me i shoot in the throat takes out the spine and shuts em down before they hit ground i shoot all me deer in the neck they just fall were they are standing if i can't hit them there i dont take the shot theres all ways next time

Yeah I certainly didn't aim for the nose on purpose but sh*t happens. The change to a heavier projectile was enought to fix that problem. When you're shooting an empty Coke can with a TNT and it enters one side and within 3 odd inches it's blow into smaller fragments over a 2" radius sorts of tells me they're lightly built It was enough to convince that lightly built, high velocity, small calibre projectiles designed for things like rabbits shouldn't be used for larger, thicker skinned animals regardless of how good a shot you are. The site of a few roos clawing at the hole where their face once was while falling over backwards changed my tune. High neck shots on deer work excellent, even with smaller centrefires. Done a few of those but normally use the .25/06".

 

[Nardoo]

Hey guys, go easy on the Model 70's. I had a 22/250 varmit in the late seventies that would shoot onder 0.4 MOA. It was a beauty. I only have the one Mod 70 now and it shoots really well too. It is a .338 and it will shoot the 250 grain Woodleighs into less than an inch all day. The Remington is a .375 H&H and it will shoot 300 gn Sierras or Woodleighs into not much more than 1/2" at 100. I find most of the new rifles very accurate.

The only rough bored rifle I have is a Ruger #1 .45/70 and I fixed that with about 50 rounds of fire-lapping. It shoots cast projectiles like a dream now.

This is getting up to .458 velocity.

Al.

 

[Terry Syd]

45/70, now we are discussing real guns. Some guys will protest that those big bullets have plenty of momentum, but not enough striking energy. Obviously, they have not seen what a cast bullet will do when it is cast with the first 1/3 of the mould holding a cigarette paper in the mould - three rounds on target with the same cartridge.

 

[MCW]

45/70, now we are discussing real guns. Some guys will protest that those big bullets have plenty of momentum, but not enough striking energy. Obviously, they have not seen what a cast bullet will do when it is cast with the first 1/3 of the mould holding a cigarette paper in the mould - three rounds on target with the same cartridge.

Actually the old cast bullets, apart from a bit more fouling than plated bullets, hit like a house brick. It's like in handguns. Not sure what modern data shows with the newer frangible ammo but some old crime and murder data I've got showed that the .45ACP in real life scenarios had a higher one hit stoppage rate than any of the newer, higher velocity smaller calibre rounds. Not that I'd want to be hit by those either
Rifles are a different story although I'd still back a 7.62mm SLR over a 5.56mm M16 anyday for a one shot stoppage.

 

[Terry Syd]

Yeah, the flat nosed cast bullets do hit hard. I used to use a flat nosed 180 grain bullet in my 30/30 for pigs, a great pig cartridge with lots of penetration.

My favourite load in the 45/70 was a sub-sonic 400 grain bullet in front of 29 grains of 2207. It was bloody accurate and surprisingly quiet. It had more of a 'thump' sound than a bang - a poacher's round if there ever was one.

 

[MCW]

Yeah, the flat nosed cast bullets do hit hard. I used to use a flat nosed 180 grain bullet in my 30/30 for pigs, a great pig cartridge with lots of penetration.

My favourite load in the 45/70 was a sub-sonic 400 grain bullet in front of 29 grains of 2207. It was bloody accurate and surprisingly quiet. It had more of a 'thump' sound than a bang - a poacher's round if there ever was one.

Yeah a couple of guys from the local clay club bought Marlin lever actions in .45/70 but then realised they didn't have the range for our area (generally open paddocks and long shots). They used them on a pig hunting trip in thick brush where they absolutely excelled then sold them. I love lever actions and heavy slugs but unfortunately they just don't fit any of the shooting I do. People highly underrate subsonic rounds too

 

[Terry Syd]

We used to have a metal disc hung up on a tree 160 meters from our camp out at Toorale. I would aim about 8' high over the disc and let go. It took a while for the subsonic round to get there, the disc would jump like it was hit by a truck and then some time later a loud 'clang' would be heard. We all thought it was a hoot in the time it all took.

I preferred the skill of hunting, reading signs, tracks, stalking, etc. so most of my hunting was done under 70 meters. Many times I would close on a game just for the fun of it. Three meters was the closest I ever got to a goat, I wouldn't do that with a big pig though, it just didn't seem all that prudent.

 

[MCW]

We used to have a metal disc hung up on a tree 160 meters from our camp out at Toorale. I would aim about 8' high over the disc and let go. It took a while for the subsonic round to get there, the disc would jump like it was hit by a truck and then some time later a loud 'clang' would be heard. We all thought it was a hoot in the time it all took.

I preferred the skill of hunting, reading signs, tracks, stalking, etc. so most of my hunting was done under 70 meters. Many times I would close on a game just for the fun of it. Three meters was the closest I ever got to a goat, I wouldn't do that with a big pig though, it just didn't seem all that prudent.

Yeah I've been knocking rabbits over with Winchester .22LR subsonics consistently out to 120m. I just have to give them a bit over their heads I love stalking stuff but as a rule 95% of the shooting I do is under spotlight or over open paddocks.

 

[deye223]

.357 125 hp like a remington golden saber or fedaral hydroshock 98% one shot stop and 45apc 185 in the same is 98% data comes from autopsy results in the us around 1998 i think just remember from a story from mossad ayob on home defence
had some fun with hand guns over the years

order of appearance 45 cal hornady 185 grain XTP then fired in my home brew media the next two are after drilling with a no 3 center drill in a lathe as you can see a lot more upse, the black one on the second row is a 230 grain hard cast think hawksbry river from memory after it has been fired so hard ain't the word and the last is a fed hydroshok 230 grain

after the XTP were drilled i had no over penatration problems and only lost 1 inch of group at 50 meters

i can't find all my .357 pills had some very interesting results on that calliber the diferance between a 38 and .357 mag is not as much as you woul think

and matt you would probably rather be hit with a 308 nato than a 5.56 if it has a ss 109 in it, and i know you would not want to be hit with any of them just sayen .this was aimed at post 1930 matt some reson it wont do a reply to post

 

[RandyMac]

I played with the 45/70, first with an 1873 Springfield Infantry Rifle using BP and 500gr slugs. I bought a number three Ruger later, it liked the 350gr Hornady jacketed, so did I, recoil was stout with that carbine.

 

[Terry Syd]

I pulled one of my hard cast 180 grains out of a big pig I shot and it had lost about 50% of its mass. One of the blokes I was with started going on how I should use a jacketed bullet to keep it all together. I asked him - "How dead do you want it?" - That became a source of mirth for us.

Hunting cartridges can be an endless discussion. One night around the campfire we got to talking about the loads we were using. 'Dutch' John used a 30-06 with a 150 grain bullet at 2,400fps. Angelo used a .308 with a 130 pill at 2,700, Carl used a .243 with a 87 grain at something like 3,000? and I was using a 30/30 with the 180 at 2,200. Surprisingly, all the loads had around the same energy level - it was all we needed for the job. After my comment about the cast load above, everytime we got a new hunter in camp with his stoked-up wizbang boom stick, we often joked 'how dead do you want it?'

 

[MCW]

order of appearance 45 cal hornady 185 grain XTP then fired in my home brew media the next two are after drilling with a no 3 center drill in a lathe as you can see a lot more upse, the black one on the second row is a 230 grain hard cast think hawksbry river from memory after it has been fired so hard ain't the word and the last is a fed hydroshok 230 grain

after the XTP were drilled i had no over penatration problems and only lost 1 inch of group at 50 meters

i can't find all my .357 pills had some very interesting results on that calliber the diferance between a 38 and .357 mag is not as much as you woul think

and matt you would probably rather be hit with a 308 nato than a 5.56 if it has a ss 109 in it, and i know you would not want to be hit with any of them just sayen .

Ah good old fat arsed handgun rounds. I remember digging around in the pistol club backstops finding .44 mag HP's etc
There was a lot of data a while back taken from shooting Boer Goats. Can't remember the name of the tests (I have them somewhere in a book) but these used to be the standard for lethality of certain calibres and munitions. Those Black Talon rounds look awesome but I think they are restricted to just police or security, even in the states. Not sure if anybody can get them here.

I sure wouldn't want to be hit with either I know the SS109 is more prone to tumbling on impact which can cause more tissue damage on occasion but there was a reason why every troop of Aussie SAS in Afghanistan wanted a .308 or two with them - my mate tended to carry an M4 because he wanted something handy as a forward scout. There was nearly always at least two 7.62 rifles in the troop (generally 5-7 guys). The yank special forces also had issues with one of the 5.56mm rounds they were using in Afghanistan - it simply wasn't dropping people like it should have. I don't think it was the SS109 though. The main switch to the 5.56mm rounds was due to less recoil, higher capacity magazines, and the ability to carry more ammo. Also the fact that comparitively speaking humans are easy to kill. We don't have an arse like a rhino I remember a classic story from a Vietnam vet at the golf club where a VC was running away from them (in Vietnam funnily enough!) with a backpack. His backpack soaked up a heap of M16 rounds with dust flying off everywhere but he only went down when an SLR hit him. They found a radio in the pack and the .308 had gone straight through it and out the other side. I've seen steel plate penetration tests where some guys have found that the 5.56mm has more penetration than a 7.62mm but I'm not sure if that's the case 100% of the time. Pity the military can only use full metal jacket

 

[MCW]

I pulled one of my hard cast 180 grains out of a big pig I shot and it had lost about 50% of its mass. One of the blokes I was with started going on how I should use a jacketed bullet to keep it all together. I asked him - "How dead do you want it?" - That became a source of mirth for us.

Yeah that's right Terry. There was an old saying from a well known gun writer..

"Dead is dead and you can't accomplish anything beyond that".

I know a local hero that shoots roos with a .300 Winchester Magnum. It doesn't actually drop them that well as 98% of it's energy hits the paddock behind it but he thinks it must be doing a good job because it kicks like a beatch and costs him $2 a shot. Well actually about $2.50 if you factor in barrel wear.

 

[Nardoo]

Matt, once you are bitten by the big bore bug you will knocking those rabbits with one ounce projectiles!
I use hard cast, wide metplat 400 to 500 grain slugs from a custom mould in my 45/70 at around 1800 to 1900 fps for hunting. They do not expand much but penetration and accuracy is excellent.

For smaller game I will use soft cast and cast hollow point slugs at around 1250 fps out of my 45/70 Sharps. Man, they expand and are great killers on ferals.

But when the chips are down and I am hunting big sambar I use good old Woodleighs.
These two slugs were pulled fom stags. Usually they exit but these did not for some reason. The smaller one is the 160gn 7mm Woodleigh at 3300 fps out of my 270 Weatherby mag. The second is the 250 gn flat nose Woodleigh out of my .338 WM at around 2800 fps. Good expansion and great penetration. I have never recovered a slug with my 375 H&H. The 300 gn flat nose Woodleighs must expand OK because they leave a nice big hole on the way out.

Al.