You Guys Looking At New Bandmills,

[redprospector]

What is that thing????


How about a chevy 350. You can pick those up for cheap

It's a VW engine, 1600 cc's, dual port, claiming 56 hp stock, but it ain't stock.
I've ran a few band mill's before from 14 to 24 hp. They all seem to run out of power in bigger Fir logs. That's why I went VW when I built mine. If I didn't solve anything else, I solved the power problem. There were only a couple of mfg's offering bigger engines when I built this one.

Andy

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I wanted to add some more, on the new Norwood MX34 bandsawmill... It's been stated above that Norwood went backwards on this new mill, so i'll comment on what i've seen and learned about the "improvements"...

The new mill has more capacity in that it will take bigger diameter logs, and saw from a bigger width cant.

It has all new ceramic guides, that are VERY quiet, that just "samwich" the band, there's no more bearings to make noise or wear out. These things work VERY nice, i've used them.

The bed is stiffer and stronger. The bolt holes have tighter specs., so it goes together easier and straighter, and bolts up square. It's "double brace plated" full length, instead of 4' over lapping plates. Also the new plates wrap around the bottom to make the whole assembly even stronger.

The bunks are thinner, but still strong and come with adjustable stainless bunk covers, standard. I was told that they do NOT have a problem with denting the cants, or bending sideways. Being thinner, the sawdust and debris won't stay on them to affect the accuracy.

The throttle lever is stronger, and has the added function of turning on the water/lube, revving up the motor and applying the clutch all at the same time. At the end of the cut, letting off the throttle stops all three.

Both the water and fuel tanks have been upgraded and are now easier to get to for filling.

Everything is run from the back of the mill, you don't have to walk around to lock/unlock the head, or change the depth of cut. In fact the head lock has been eliminated, along with the torsion spring. The head is now raised and lowered through mechinal advantage, instead of "spring assist".

The setworks are all new, and much easier to read.

The log post are all new, and no longer have the screw in T handles to lock them. I'm told they are strong have a new way to lock them in place and stay dead nuts square.

The clutch is now manual to eliminate any possible slipping. It puts full power to the band.

The band wheels are larger in diameter, and suport the "width" of the band, makeing it cut flatter, there's no longer a narrow belt for the band to ride on.

That's some of the things off the top of my head, that i can think of right now... Does any of that sound like a "step backwards" or a "gimmick" to you??

It looks like one he!! of a mill to me,

Rob

 

[KeyStep]

Many of these improvements sound good. Do you know Rob if Norwood plans to sell a retrofit of some of these features to existing customers? It seems these features would be a big seller to existing customers especially those that have not owned their mill for long and are looking for enhancements now. My experience has been that those manufacturers that allow a degree of backward compatibilty build strong customer loyality and higher sales. It typically is three times easier to sell to existing customers who are satisfied than new customers. After owning my LM-2000 for two seasons I would not want to sell it to buy the new model but would certainly be interested in buying enhancements even if it cost me another 30% or so...

 

[deeker]

When I talked to Dale from Norwood, last week. He said there would probably be retrofits...for some of the improvments...as in the blade guides.

Kevin

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Many of these improvements sound good. Do you know Rob if Norwood plans to sell a retrofit of some of these features to existing customers? It seems these features would be a big seller to existing customers especially those that have not owned their mill for long and are looking for enhancements now. My experience has been that those manufacturers that allow a degree of backward compatibilty build strong customer loyality and higher sales. It typically is three times easier to sell to existing customers who are satisfied than new customers. After owning my LM-2000 for two seasons I would not want to sell it to buy the new model but would certainly be interested in buying enhancements even if it cost me another 30% or so...

What i do know is, the LM2000 has been out for nearly 10 years, and the MX34 is a totally new design, just like the LM2000 replaced the LM Mark 4.

Other than the guides, (that i'm NOT sure about) i don't think anything else would fit, or could easily be made to fit. The head and pretty much everything on it, is different. The bunks, log post, track, even the track wheels are different. The whole head is bigger and stiffer...

It doesn't sound or look like a warmed over 2000 to me, it's a totally new design, said to blow the 2000 out of the water.

I didn't talk to Dale, i talked to the guy that designed the mill, this is a NEW platform to take the company forward...

Check out those new guides!

Rob

 

[deeker]

What i do know is, the LM2000 has been out for nearly 10 years, and the MX34 is a totally new design, just like the LM2000 replaced the LM Mark 4.

Other than the guides, (that i'm NOT sure about) i don't think anything else would fit, or could easily be made to fit. The head and pretty much everything on it, is different. The bunks, log post, track, even the track wheels are different. The whole head is bigger and stiffer...

It doesn't sound or look like a warmed over 2000 to me, it's a totally new design, said to blow the 2000 out of the water.

I didn't talk to Dale, i talked to the guy that designed the mill, this is a NEW platform to take the company forward...

Check out those new guides!

Rob

I want the new guides. I am moving the key starter to a better location, and the lube control next to the throttle.

 

[deeker]

My 1220 TimberKing will cut 29" and I can put what ever motor I want on it. "Thank You"

Rodney

You obviously don't cut as much as the rest of us. A 29" cut with 15hp?? No thanks.

 

[KeyStep]

I hope you are wrong on having no retrofits. It is just not sound thinking if they have not at least thought about the possiblity. It reduces inventory levels, opens up sales to service markets, and increases customer loyalty. I would have to see the actual components before I would be able to recommend retrofits, but I can't see why some of these changes wouldn't work on the LM-2000. Those guides do look nice....

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I hope you are wrong on having no retrofits. It is just not sound thinking if they have not at least thought about the possiblity. It reduces inventory levels, opens up sales to service markets, and increases customer loyalty. I would have to see the actual components before I would be able to recommend retrofits, but I can't see why some of these changes wouldn't work on the LM-2000. Those guides do look nice....

There's nothing wrong with the 2000, it does what they advertised it to do, and it has had upgrades built for it right along it's life... I've been sawing on mine for a long time, and i like it a lot. The new MX is just a new platform, just like 2000 was when it came out and replaced my old origional Lumbermate. Not much of anything on the 2000 will fit the origional LM.

Check out the new throttle,

Rob

 

[KeyStep]

I like my Norwood mill too but making improvements backward compatible is important. What I am talking about is how you can significantly improve profits & loyality to existing customers. Take for example all those LM-2000 customers over the past 10 years? How many will now buy the new model and sell their existing model? How many would buy the new enhancements if they could be made available on the LM-2000? Use whatever percentage you like but selling new product features for new and older models is a very important market for successful companies. Better guides, better locking log posts, better ways of watering, throttle control, etc.. may not by themselves seem huge but they can be bothersome on a manual mill and many will feel worth buying. My marketing background leads me to feel that if the features are real improvements many existing customers will want them and the solution will not be to buy a new mill for the majority of customers. My engineering background tells me that if Norwood has ignored this market potential then someone should do the retrofit for them.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Rob you asked what I don't like about the new mills.

...

It doesn't sound or look like a warmed over 2000 to me, it's a totally new design, said to blow the 2000 out of the water.

Rob

New design I believe, but blowing the LM2000 out of the water I certainly don't believe. The late model LM2000s are almost perfect as far as manual bandmills go. The only way that I can see the new MX mill blowing the battle tested LM2000 "out of the water" is if every mill purchase comes with 2 free laborers.

On the new MX mill I see new cross bunks with low angular rigidity, this I don't like, if I really push hard on that log to slide it sideways down the bunks to slide it into position, and a knot catches, that new bunk will bend well before my current square tube bunks will.

The plastic spout for the water outlet I like, that's good thinking, although I wish it were made of metal though for longevity. I give it 4 months before its broken and being replaced with a 50 cent piece of stainless steel tubing.

The ceramic guides I'll pass on thank you. In fact I know of a sawyer who went from ceramic to a roller guide system because he was getting tired of always dealing with pitch build-up on them. I know that my norwood rollers use 6203RS bearings, a very common item stocked at a local store. When the day comes to replace these, it will take me $10 and I'll have the new ones installed in a couple of hours. If foreign debris breaks one of those ceramic guides, well I better have a spare on hand. I don't want to be down for 4 days while I wait for a new one to come in via express.

I would rather keep my centrifugal clutch over the cable activated one. No setup to worry about, it just works, time after time, and never slips or burns out due to improper adjustment or a cable problem.

The auto water on off is a moot point to me. I am often adjusting my water flow and sometimes using no water, or water every 5th cut, etc.

The new speed style "automatic" setworks bothers me. If I want to make a 1/16" correction but the nearest setworks notch is at a 1/4" mark, will I still be able to make that fine adjustment? This is important to me and would be a major deal breaker.

Norwood dropped the 20HP Honda. If anything they should have added a commercial Honda engine, this would be a 25HP fuel injected Honda if I could have my pick. If I were going to buy one of these new MX mills, I would ask it to be supplied sans engine. I am happy with the durability of my Honda and would buy another one now that I have it running smoothly in cold and damp weather.

Norwood says the new mill has oversized bandwheels. They are 20.25" in diameter. They are not oversized. 24" would be fine, something in the 28" range would be oversized. If they were going to change the bandwheel diameter, why not go a couple inches larger to really make a difference on blade life.

Their new "Extreme Duty" log dog system looks like a joke to me. It looks less effective than the current dogging system. What's more, they haven't yet addressed the sawdust binding issues inherent with having one tube slide over the other.

For whatever reason, they went with an open flat runner system for the carriage to track on. I don't even see any sweepers to clear the tracks. With the current LM2000, sawdust buildup on the tracks is never an issue with its self cleaning design. You can have all the fancy gizmos in the world, but if the carriage won't run true because of sawdust buildup on the tracks, you're back at square one.

I see 3 cables coming off of the same handle, I have enough fun maintaining the one throttle cable in the winter. In fact, the solid steel choke cable became so much of a problem that I removed it completely. My mill is now running like it should be with the choke cable off. Can you imagine having three cables, all having to work properly in unison? No thank you, give me Woodmizer's sealed electrical system any day over that bunch of cables.

As for the roller toe boards, why would they go away from a proven single roller design to 2 small plastic wheels? I think it would work great on smooth hardwood logs, but for the rest of us dealing with irregular and knotty logs on a regular basis, I'm surprised by this.

I see some things on the new mill that I do like. For all those guys needing a portable mill, it has 6 solid looking jacks instead of the old small screw-jack levelers that were prone to bending, and the standard stainless bunk covers is good to see. However, all in all, I am really disappointed that Norwood has gone from producing one of the best manual mills out there, the LM2000, to taking a large step backwards in my opinion with this new MX Pro mill that really does not exhibit many "pro" features at all.

The only saving grace to me is that when the time comes to upgrade, the Lumbermate 2000s should hold their value well and there are a lot of other serious commercial mill manufactures to consider.


To be honest, the biggest question I have about the new mill is why do you, Rob, seem to be trying to sell the new mill? Are you just excited about it or do you have ulterior motives in the success of the new mill?

 

[Sawyer Rob]

New design I believe, but blowing the LM2000 out of the water I certainly don't believe. The late model LM2000s are almost perfect as far as manual bandmills go. The only way that I can see the new MX mill blowing the battle tested LM2000 "out of the water" is if every mill purchase comes with 2 free laborers.

On the new MX mill I see new cross bunks with low angular rigidity, this I don't like, if I really push hard on that log to slide it sideways down the bunks to slide it into position, and a knot catches, that new bunk will bend well before my current square tube bunks will.

The plastic spout for the water outlet I like, that's good thinking, although I wish it were made of metal though for longevity. I give it 4 months before its broken and being replaced with a 50 cent piece of stainless steel tubing.

The ceramic guides I'll pass on thank you. In fact I know of a sawyer who went from ceramic to a roller guide system because he was getting tired of always dealing with pitch build-up on them. I know that my norwood rollers use 6203RS bearings, a very common item stocked at a local store. When the day comes to replace these, it will take me $10 and I'll have the new ones installed in a couple of hours. If foreign debris breaks one of those ceramic guides, well I better have a spare on hand. I don't want to be down for 4 days while I wait for a new one to come in via express.

I would rather keep my centrifugal clutch over the cable activated one. No setup to worry about, it just works, time after time, and never slips or burns out due to improper adjustment or a cable problem.

The auto water on off is a moot point to me. I am often adjusting my water flow and sometimes using no water, or water every 5th cut, etc.

The new speed style "automatic" setworks bothers me. If I want to make a 1/16" correction but the nearest setworks notch is at a 1/4" mark, will I still be able to make that fine adjustment? This is important to me and would be a major deal breaker.

Norwood dropped the 20HP Honda. If anything they should have added a commercial Honda engine, this would be a 25HP fuel injected Honda if I could have my pick. If I were going to buy one of these new MX mills, I would ask it to be supplied sans engine. I am happy with the durability of my Honda and would buy another one now that I have it running smoothly in cold and damp weather.

Norwood says the new mill has oversized bandwheels. They are 20.25" in diameter. They are not oversized. 24" would be fine, something in the 28" range would be oversized. If they were going to change the bandwheel diameter, why not go a couple inches larger to really make a difference on blade life.

Their new "Extreme Duty" log dog system looks like a joke to me. It looks less effective than the current dogging system. What's more, they haven't yet addressed the sawdust binding issues inherent with having one tube slide over the other.

For whatever reason, they went with an open flat runner system for the carriage to track on. I don't even see any sweepers to clear the tracks. With the current LM2000, sawdust buildup on the tracks is never an issue with its self cleaning design. You can have all the fancy gizmos in the world, but if the carriage won't run true because of sawdust buildup on the tracks, you're back at square one.

I see 3 cables coming off of the same handle, I have enough fun maintaining the one throttle cable in the winter. In fact, the solid steel choke cable became so much of a problem that I removed it completely. My mill is now running like it should be with the choke cable off. Can you imagine having three cables, all having to work properly in unison? No thank you, give me Woodmizer's sealed electrical system any day over that bunch of cables.

As for the roller toe boards, why would they go away from a proven single roller design to 2 small plastic wheels? I think it would work great on smooth hardwood logs, but for the rest of us dealing with irregular and knotty logs on a regular basis, I'm surprised by this.

I see some things on the new mill that I do like. For all those guys needing a portable mill, it has 6 solid looking jacks instead of the old small screw-jack levelers that were prone to bending, and the standard stainless bunk covers is good to see. However, all in all, I am really disappointed that Norwood has gone from producing one of the best manual mills out there, the LM2000, to taking a large step backwards in my opinion with this new MX Pro mill that really does not exhibit many "pro" features at all.

The only saving grace to me is that when the time comes to upgrade, the Lumbermate 2000s should hold their value well and there are a lot of other serious commercial mill manufactures to consider.


To be honest, the biggest question I have about the new mill is why do you, Rob, seem to be trying to sell the new mill? Are you just excited about it or do you have ulterior motives in the success of the new mill?

I guess i could go through and remark on all of your points, but you have made those points based on "pictures", and i haven't.

Take those guides for instance. You base your opinion on a picture and/or what someone else told you... I on the other hand have been sawing with ceramic guides for some time, so i KNOW what they are like.

As for your "biggest question"... YES i am excited about the mill, and YES i have "ulterior motives". My ulterior motives are that Norwood is a GREAT company, when i've needed something, they have been prompt with answers or a part. When i call they couldn't be nicer, and if i want to talk to the owner, if he's there (he's semi retired now) he gets on the phone and chats with me. So, i'm treating them just like they have treated me, and i'm passing on new info about something i know something about.

I'm on my second bandmill from Norwood, and both have been great, with the second being MUCH better than the first one. I'm betteing the new MX will be better than the 2000 too.

Rob

 

[Coalsmoke]

I guess i could go through and remark on all of your points, but you have made those points based on "pictures", and i haven't.

Take those guides for instance. You base your opinion on a picture and/or what someone else told you... I on the other hand have been sawing with ceramic guides for some time, so i KNOW what they are like.

As for your "biggest question"... YES i am excited about the mill, and YES i have "ulterior motives". My ulterior motives are that Norwood is a GREAT company, when i've needed something, they have been prompt with answers or a part. When i call they couldn't be nicer, and if i want to talk to the owner, if he's there (he's semi retired now) he gets on the phone and chats with me. So, i'm treating them just like they have treated me, and i'm passing on new info about something i know something about.

I'm on my second bandmill from Norwood, and both have been great, with the second being MUCH better than the first one. I'm betteing the new MX will be better than the 2000 too.

Rob

So how many hours do you have on that new MX mill then Rob? Pictures can tell a lot of a story, if one chooses to have an open mind about them. For example, I don't need 100 hours on the new mill to know that the upgraded leveling jacks are a good idea. I can understand how my critical approach to the new mill is dampening your excitement, my apologies are offered. I still think Norwood is a good company, up there with many of the other fine companies. However, as I stated before, it would have made more sense for them to go to a larger commercial mill, or, at least provide retrofit upgrades for the already very solid and well liked LM2000.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

So how many hours do you have on that new MX mill then Rob? Pictures can tell a lot of a story, if one chooses to have an open mind about them. For example, I don't need 100 hours on the new mill to know that the upgraded leveling jacks are a good idea. I can understand how my critical approach to the new mill is dampening your excitement, my apologies are offered. I still think Norwood is a good company, up there with many of the other fine companies. However, as I stated before, it would have made more sense for them to go to a larger commercial mill, or, at least provide retrofit upgrades for the already very solid and well liked LM2000.

Why would your "opinion" dampen my excitement? I assure you it doesn't, as it's just "your" opinion, and i already have one of those... lol

I saw all of this once before, when the 2000 came out, and we both know how "that" turned out.

Dang, i hate it today, i didn't get anything done, as i have to go to the dentist today, so hope your day has been more productive than mine!

Rob

 

[Coalsmoke]

Why would your "opinion" dampen my excitement? I assure you it doesn't, as it's just "your" opinion, and i already have one of those... lol


Dang, i hate it today, i didn't get anything done, as i have to go to the dentist today, so hope your day has been more productive than mine!

Rob

Well, I figured one way or another my opinion must be getting to you as you seem hellbent on discrediting it. I'm a straight shooter and call it like I see it. If I see something I like, I'll say so, and if I see things that concern me, likewise I'm not going to gloss over it because its new.

Spent the morning doing paperwork and am heading out to cut 450 bd ft of Alder. Good luck with the dentist.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Well, I figured one way or another my opinion must be getting to you as you seem hellbent on discrediting it. I'm a straight shooter and call it like I see it. If I see something I like, I'll say so, and if I see things that concern me, likewise I'm not going to gloss over it because its new.

Spent the morning doing paperwork and am heading out to cut 450 bd ft of Alder. Good luck with the dentist.

Thanks for the good luck, i need it! lol

I'm like you in that i "say it like it is". But, i am willing to try something BEFORE i condemn it, new or not. With what i know about Norwood, and with their track record, i seriously doubt they are going to build a piece of junk, and go backwards.

If i thought those new features were junk or a gimmick, then that's exactly what i'd call them.

We will all know forsure soon though, as they are in production making parts right now, and the new mills will be shipping out soon.

Rob

 

[Backwoods]

Wow things were getting a bit rough here,:sword: but in the end only one had to go to the dentist and the other tore up his paper work so he could mill up some logs. Glad to see you guys worked things out.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Wow things were getting a bit rough here,:sword: but in the end only one had to go to the dentist and the other tore up his paper work so he could mill up some logs. Glad to see you guys worked things out.

Its nothing a little sawdust and time won't fix.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Well, we have snow now, and it's been cold for a few days. I no longer like the snow and cold, so i've been doing mostly indoor work.

Before the snow came i did manage to saw out a few stickers, getting started on a short cutoff i had by the mill,

It didn't take long to have a pile of stickers,

Rob

 

[TraditionalTool]

I was asking about the new Norwood mills on another site, and then found this thread.

Honestly, I'm not very impressed with the new mills. They just do not have a lot of new features or options added. Not saying I don't like the Norwood mills, but by the looks of it the price is going up also. I mean, $1000 for about $200 worth of extra features? Maybe I'm missing something here...it's not like they redesigned the entire mill...

For this class of mill, I still like the Cooks MP-32 about the best, and if I buy a new mill I will most likely get the Cooks MP-32.

My preference is to buy a used mill though, and I made an offer on a used LT15 that I haven't heard back from the seller yet. Presumably he didn't like my offer...lol