60 minutes, $300.00

[Fubar411]

Question for Thall though. Say you're bringing down a tree and it hits the house. Who pays?

 

[Side Kick]

THALL We still on fer them trees I got to get done? Since I line em up I get $1500 and that leaves yo with same unless you can get more. cash on hand the man is loaded

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

450.00 for that little tree, okkkkkkkkkkk. Sawing and clean up may have took a hour at most with a helper and a chipper. So you justify 450.00 a hour,okkkk. Now you know why people around here come see me. My point is Big what I do in Va has nothing to do with you or your business in Ohio. You need to blow smoke at the ones that may be hurting you, I sure am not. If you was here in my area and confronted me about it I'd tell you to merely what alot of the people tell arborsits around here, go f-ck ya self and go on about my way. Since ya in Ohio though and your complaining about me in Va its obvious your getting hammered by guys like me beings your so upset over it. Maybe its not me and guys like me but that 450.00 a hour you consider so fair thats causing your grief. Your a tree surgeon, but you charge about the same as a heart surgeon or a big shot lawyer per hour. You charge whatever you want, makes no nevermind to me. I'm not a business but I will admit guys like you charging 450.00 a hour keeps me busy on week ends. Keep those prices up there, I like week end work...

So $300 for you left the mess AND the firewood AND you didn't even drag the brush. That's a fairer price than $450 or so to leave the yard in ready-to-mow condition while the homeowner sits safely in the house sipping iced tea watching me work? My point: It took an hour to drop it and leave. It's only going to take me an hour to drop the tree, chip the brush, load the firewood (or neatly stack it for the homeowner), rake the effected area and run the blower till the yard looks perfect? I'm no slouch, but I'm not THAT fast. Apples to apples if you want to make price point comparisons friend. Let's be fair. To do the WHOLE job your talking at least 2 hours. Your position is not very defensible there Thall. My $450 IS the better value. ($300 per hr. for your services vs. $225 per hr. for an insured legit business) To do what you did I would have charged about the same. (Again, I'm insured you aren't so my bid still wins the upper hand in value there) I'm not overpriced. You just don't want to admit it.

Hey, I'm not in Va. and you aren't in Oh. You are correct there. Am I blowing up frustration at the wrong guy...yeah maybe. Does that make my position on what you do any different? Nope. Do I give hell to the locals that do it....yup. What do you expect bragging about undermining guys that are legit on an ARBORIST's site? We make a living doing this and you come in and brag about taking jobs out from under us? Didn't think that would hit a nerve somewhere?

In all, I've made my points whether you understand/agree with them or not. You're going to keep doing what you're doing. It's always going to be a peev of mine. I guess that's the end of it when it comes down to it. I've said it and I'm not going to spend the next week babbling back and forth over it.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

You know Chris, your rant reminds me of a couple of my own.

I don't suppose that you buy any of your saws or supplies online to save a few bucks vs. the local dealers do you? If so, then although your points are valid, you would be a bit of a hypocrite wouldn't you?

I'm not trying to expand the argument, but the reality is that no one likes to have whatever he does undercut by some other entity that exerts a downward pull on prices. Whether it's online discounters, part time cutters, cheap stuff from China, whatever.

Like my store, your solution lies in focusing on the upper end of your business and the people willing to pay for your professionalism. But just because Thall doesn't have a fleet of bucket trucks, doesn't mean he isn't qualified to do the occasional tree job.

I do buy what I can't get locally through mail order. I have no climbing suppliers in my neck of the woods so I have to go by catalog for pretty much anything that isn't a saw or blower. I deal with the same guy I've been dealing with since I started.

For the record: We own one bucket...not a fleet. We have a couple good chippers and an 1989 one-ton box dump. We have 5 guys on the payroll. We've got a 502 stump grinder. Sound like a huge corporate operation to you guys? Not even. We're all local guys that work hard and take care of our customers. It's a grassroots business.

I do understand what you're saying. I'm not saying that the man is incompetent. (BTW 50-100 jobs a year is HARDLY occasional...that's 1-2 a week) My point is that his actions have a negative impact on the legit business...especially the smaller guys. You know, the guys that have to come in and hand out cash to him for new saws or repairs to what they own. It's a vicious cycle.....

 

[THALL10326]

Thall you are full of BS. Tree companies do not charge those rates for a job that takes 1.5 hours.

You are misrepresenting the tree care industry and it sucks.

I fixed a stihl saw for a fellow the other day on the side because the local stihl shop wanted $350 per hour!

See how stupid that sounds. Now you know how you sound to people in the tree business.

Tree your so full of BS. I did the mans tree's for him and he my dear ole buddy was the one that told me the quotes he gotton. I also know the companies that gave him those quotes as well. I sold them some saws not long ago so puff on that ole boy. Tree you keep on blowing smoke, your nothing but a ole has been on here anyway. Arguing with you is like arguing with a 2 year old. Ya haven't posted squat in months and now your in the know all the sudden, spare me will ya, I'm tired of slamming ya..

 

[THALL10326]

THALL We still on fer them trees I got to get done? Since I line em up I get $1500 and that leaves yo with same unless you can get more. cash on hand the man is loaded

Ya dayummm right were on. We should be done by 4pm ole boy. Not bad for a days work I say and we still save him a boat load..

 

[THALL10326]

Question for Thall though. Say you're bringing down a tree and it hits the house. Who pays?

Fubar everytime I do a tree the people know upfront what the score is. I make no bones about it being a side job and nothing more. I also tell them flat out if I don't think the tree will fall where it needs to go I don't touch it. I've turned down many because I need to sure exactly where its going. To date and for 30 plus years no accidents. Reason is simple, if I'm not positive I don't touch it. I'm not leading anoyone in the dark, they know full well what the deal is and its up to them whether they want it done or not. I could care less either way, too many fish in the sea to worry about one.

 

[THALL10326]

So $300 for you left the mess AND the firewood AND you didn't even drag the brush. That's a fairer price than $450 or so to leave the yard in ready-to-mow condition while the homeowner sits safely in the house sipping iced tea watching me work? My point: It took an hour to drop it and leave. It's only going to take me an hour to drop the tree, chip the brush, load the firewood (or neatly stack it for the homeowner), rake the effected area and run the blower till the yard looks perfect? I'm no slouch, but I'm not THAT fast. Apples to apples if you want to make price point comparisons friend. Let's be fair. To do the WHOLE job your talking at least 2 hours. Your position is not very defensible there Thall. My $450 IS the better value. ($300 per hr. for your services vs. $225 per hr. for an insured legit business) To do what you did I would have charged about the same. (Again, I'm insured you aren't so my bid still wins the upper hand in value there) I'm not overpriced. You just don't want to admit it.

Hey, I'm not in Va. and you aren't in Oh. You are correct there. Am I blowing up frustration at the wrong guy...yeah maybe. Does that make my position on what you do any different? Nope. Do I give hell to the locals that do it....yup. What do you expect bragging about undermining guys that are legit on an ARBORIST's site? We make a living doing this and you come in and brag about taking jobs out from under us? Didn't think that would hit a nerve somewhere?

In all, I've made my points whether you understand/agree with them or not. You're going to keep doing what you're doing. It's always going to be a peev of mine. I guess that's the end of it when it comes down to it. I've said it and I'm not going to spend the next week babbling back and forth over it.

Glad ya came back Big, really I am, time I shut ya up once and for all. However first things first. If you had taken the time to read this thread you would have seen I usually only charge around 100.00 a tree. That guy made a offer of 300.00 and 200.00 for the two small ones in the back. I never told him what I usually charge, I didn't have to, he made a offer first so yes I think 450.00 is a lot higher than what I usually charge. As for leaving it on the ground that was the deal. You may not like that but I'm not cutting for you, the man was happy, your not , too bad.

Now shut up time for you. You say guys like me hurt your business. Ok then I guess I'm not suppose to sell chainsaws either. Do you realize how many people come buy a saw to do a tree in their own back yard because they refuse to hire a arborist??? Have you any idea how much that happens. Now are they hurting your business too? Am I suppose to tell them no, you have to hire a arborist for that tree, I can't sell you saw to do it. Now tell me to keep you in business I have to quit selling saws too, get real Big, your argument doesn't hold water. You seem to have this notion only a arborist can saw down a tree. I got sad news for you, I sell a helluva lot of saws every year to mr. happy homeower and mr yuppie who both refuse to hire a arborist. I guess you will have to go door to door and tell them they can't use those saws, they have to hire a arborsit. Love to hear the replies you get. Now are we through or would you like some more?

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

Last time I checked we live in the United States of America, not communist China, and last I checked we have a capitalist economy. Let me tell you something, if I want to pay $600 to have a tree taken down that is my right if I think they will do a better job. However, if I want to pay $100 to a qualified side jobsman, than you know what, that is my RIGHT!

I have a large maple tree in my backyard that I would love to have come down. But the lowest quote I got was $650. That maybe a fair price, but I am a cop. I don't make a lot of money, neither does my wife. We have a 2yr. old son and own our house and car (along with the bank). I don't crap $100 bills everytime I take a dump. So if I had a fellow like Thall who is qualified to take my tree down for $100, well hell yes money is in his hand. For that I can do the clean up. Let me tell you something Ugly, you have a job, so business must not be that bad. God Bless the U.S.A. and a FAIR free market.

Let me tell you something sir:

1) I've got family and friends that are cops. You don't have it that bad. They all have nice pensions, good hours and make more money than I do. (Yes, they take risk and so do you...I respect your line of work. Don't try the poor public service card on me though. I'm also pretty sure you chose to be a cop)

2) This isn't communist China. Mr. Sideline is free to do that job for you and you are free to pay him. He's also free to sue you for everything you have if he gets hurt on your property. He's also free to claim that since he isn't insured YOU'RE responsible for that tree that went the wrong way into your neighbors house.

3) If YOU aren't qualified to remove the tree...how exactly do you surmise who IS qualified?

4) If you want the tree dropped and left, get a bid for that service. I'm willing to bet that the smaller tree guys (like myself) will be willing to do it that way at about the same price as your weekend warrior. With the benefits of having insurance and being properly trained/equipped.

5) Why are you even in this conversation exactly? Your comments are neither useful nor insightful. You aren't an arborist, you aren't the guy I was talking to. You're a homeowner. I know what the homeowner thinks...maybe because I am a homeowner. Not to mention I deal with their concerns all day every day. It's my job to make sure that they are satisfied with the service they recieved before I leave the sight.

6) People that refer to other people as idiots in their tagline are usually trying NOT to look like an idiot. They know that they don't posess the knowledge to argue the topic effectively and they don't have the sense to stay out of it so they ramble something out and then call the other guy idiot or moron to try and sway parties to their cause....even if they don't know what it is. (psst...get a clue)

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

Glad ya came back Big, really I am, time I shut ya up once and for all. However first things first. If you had taken the time to read this thread you would have seen I usually only charge around 100.00 a tree. That guy made a offer of 300.00 and 200.00 for the two small ones in the back. I never told him what I usually charge, I didn't have to, he made a offer first so yes I think 450.00 is a lot higher than what I usually charge. As for leaving it on the ground that was the deal. You may not like that but I'm not cutting for you, the man was happy, your not , too bad.

Now shut up time for you. You say guys like me hurt your business. Ok then I guess I'm not suppose to sell chainsaws either. Do you realize how many people come buy a saw to do a tree in their own back yard because they refuse to hire a arborist??? Have you any idea how much that happens. Now are they hurting your business too? Am I suppose to tell them no, you have to hire a arborist for that tree, I can't sell you saw to do it. Now tell me to keep you in business I have to quit selling saws too, get real Big, your argument doesn't hold water. You seem to have this notion only a arborist can saw down a tree. I got sad news for you, I sell a helluva lot of saws every year to mr. happy homeower and mr yuppie who both refuse to hire a arborist. I guess you will have to go door to door and tell them they can't use those saws, they have to hire a arborsit. Love to hear the replies you get. Now are we through or would you like some more?

Wow....who spends more on saws...me or the homeowner? Let's see...I buy SEVERAL a year. The smallest and least expensive being the 200T...at over $600 after 16" bar and tax. The biggest being the 3120XP w/36" bar. Hmm...TONS of chains...lots of chain grinds...files, round files, file guides, repairs, two stroke mix, bar oil....

the average homeowner buys ONE saw and since he's looking for the deal he goes with the 180 or MAYBE the 290.

Again....your logic is flawed. I don't do jobs, I don't buy saws or pay for repairs. Make sure to let your regulars know that you don't appreciate them next time they're in.

BTW--Homeowners dropping trees...ok. it happens. HE CAN'T SUE HIMSELF FOR DAMAGES OR INJURIED HE INCURRES!!!

You're grabbing at straws Thall. There is no way to talk your way around it. My points are valid. You're going to do jobs and that's that. You're out of gas and I'm done discussing it.

 

[THALL10326]

Let me tell you something sir:

1) I've got family and friends that are cops. You don't have it that bad. They all have nice pensions, good hours and make more money than I do. (Yes, they take risk and so do you...I respect your line of work. Don't try the poor public service card on me though. I'm also pretty sure you chose to be a cop)

2) This isn't communist China. Mr. Sideline is free to do that job for you and you are free to pay him. He's also free to sue you for everything you have if he gets hurt on your property. He's also free to claim that since he isn't insured YOU'RE responsible for that tree that went the wrong way into your neighbors house.

3) If YOU aren't qualified to remove the tree...how exactly do you surmise who IS qualified?

4) If you want the tree dropped and left, get a bid for that service. I'm willing to bet that the smaller tree guys (like myself) will be willing to do it that way at about the same price as your weekend warrior. With the benefits of having insurance and being properly trained/equipped.

5) Why are you even in this conversation exactly? Your comments are neither useful nor insightful. You aren't an arborist, you aren't the guy I was talking to. You're a homeowner. I know what the homeowner thinks...maybe because I am a homeowner. Not to mention I deal with their concerns all day every day. It's my job to make sure that they are satisfied with the service they recieved before I leave the sight.

6) People that refer to other people as idiots in their tagline are usually trying NOT to look like an idiot. They know that they don't posess the knowledge to argue the topic effectively and they don't have the sense to stay out of it so they ramble something out and then call the other guy idiot or moron to try and sway parties to their cause....even if they don't know what it is. (psst...get a clue)

Big you don't need to fussing with him, you got your hands full with me. He merely told it like it was and of course you don't like it and thats your choice. Its a free country, trees everywhere and lots of saws, catching my drift? I see your 29 years old Big which means I was running saws before you was even born. You seem to put off this air that unless your a arborist you can't possibly handle a saw. Wake up Big, it doesn't take rocket science to run a saw or take down a tree. Even kids can do it, I did at 10 years old so spare me this your not a arborist non-sense...

 

[THALL10326]

Wow....who spends more on saws...me or the homeowner? Let's see...I buy SEVERAL a year. The smallest and least expensive being the 200T...at over $600 after 16" bar and tax. The biggest being the 3120XP w/36" bar. Hmm...TONS of chains...lots of chain grinds...files, round files, file guides, repairs, two stroke mix, bar oil....

the average homeowner buys ONE saw and since he's looking for the deal he goes with the 180 or MAYBE the 290.

Again....your logic is flawed. I don't do jobs, I don't buy saws or pay for repairs. Make sure to let your regulars know that you don't appreciate them next time they're in.

BTW--Homeowners dropping trees...ok. it happens. HE CAN'T SUE HIMSELF FOR DAMAGES OR INJURIED HE INCURRES!!!

You're grabbing at straws Thall. There is no way to talk your way around it. My points are valid. You're going to do jobs and that's that. You're out of gas and I'm done discussing it.

I'm grabbing staws,LOLOL, you the one boo hooing I'm putting you out of business,good grief. You got some saws, whoopie, how many ya got?

It must really get in your crawl that not everyone bows down to your line of work. Why you so furious about a guy making some pocket change on week ends or some homeowner saying screw you, I'll do it myself.

You talked yourself in a box Big, admit it and shut up. Still wanna know how many saws ya got. I got 26 by the way from the 200T to the 880, some Dolmars too. No Huskies though, not my flavor.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

I never said you couldn't run a saw. I never said you weren't capable of taking down a tree. I pointed out that your methods are unsafe and that you hurt the business of other tree companies. Don't try to make this a "snooty arborist" thing. Furthermore-

If the gentleman would keep his nose out of others' business he wouldn't get told to.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

Thall...you don't get it. I'm done discussing this. I've made my point and you've made yours. That's it. My opinion won't change, neither will your actions. Game over. Stalemate.

 

[THALL10326]

Thall...you don't get it. I'm done discussing this. I've made my point and you've made yours. That's it. My opinion won't change, neither will your actions. Game over. Stalemate.

Oh I got it loud and clear, now go soak ya wounds and quit that non-sense of I'm hurting your business. BTW Big, I got a little (big really) tree job this week end, your welcome to come help me and Sidekick, we'll go thirds with ya. See I hold no grudge at all..

 

[THALL10326]

I never said you couldn't run a saw. I never said you weren't capable of taking down a tree. I pointed out that your methods are unsafe and that you hurt the business of other tree companies. Don't try to make this a "snooty arborist" thing. Furthermore-

If the gentleman would keep his nose out of others' business he wouldn't get told to.

I like how you say if the gentleman would keep his nose out of others business. Maybe you should have kept yours out of mine and you wouldn't be in the shape your in at the moment.

Nuff said though, its been a pleasure meeting you Big, really has. As for ole Treeco well he and I go back a long way. Guess he got bored or something, he doesn't post much anymore. Maybe he will now, I likes him,lolololol

 

[livewire]

Sure got quiet!

 

[aquan8tor]

Oh I got it loud and clear, now go soak ya wounds and quit that non-sense of I'm hurting your business. BTW Big, I got a little (big really) tree job this week end, your welcome to come help me and Sidekick, we'll go thirds with ya. See I hold no grudge at all..

I'd go in with ya too, but I've got plans this weekend. I go through Leesburg 'bout once a month on the way to see my lady in PA. THALL, you ever get anyone asking about big cherry or walnut, PM me and I'll work out a deal with you to mill it & keep some for meself......really. Might need some time to get off work, but let me know!!!!

 

[kevinj]

I'm with you Tom 100 % .
By the same token, If my car needs a tune up, or whatever,
I'm not gonna go to a CERTIFIED Specialist. If I know someone who is just as qualified, known around town as a reputable repairman, and wants to make a couple bucks on the side and is a lot cheaper, He's the one that's gonna get my business.

 

[04ultra]

I'm with you Tom 100 % .
By the same token, If my car needs a tune up, or whatever,
I'm not gonna go to a CERTIFIED Specialist. If I know someone who is just as qualified, known around town as a reputable repairman, and wants to make a couple bucks on the side and is a lot cheaper, He's the one that's gonna get my business.

+1..



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