661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[Deets066]

The title of this thread should be changed to-

The meaningless never ending banter of bullsh!t

Seriously!

 

[bwalker]

Why limit oneself to only what brick and mortar stores carry? Amazon or Ebay constitute adequate availability as far as I'm concerned, but YMMV. That being said, one oil in my list, Lucas Semi syn can be bought from Napa Auto Parts stores.

P.S. Just because an oil is an "injection oil" doesn't mean it can't perform just as well in a premix application like a saw or other OPE.

An injection oil is a comprise and one I don't care nor have to make. Ditto with a marine oil. Good air cooled pre mix only oils are readily available, so why not use the correct oil type for the application?
I also have no desire to try every obscure oil under the sun. Buying over the internet is another thing I'd rather not do as its just easier for me to stop by a retailer when I'm driving by and pick some up.

 

[bwalker]

Seriously!

Just curious why your still following it then?

 

[Deets066]

Just curious why your still following it then?

I can't help it

 

[Deets066]

An injection oil is a comprise and one I don't care nor have to make. Ditto with a marine oil. Good air cooled pre mix only oils are readily available, so why not use the correct oil type for the application?
I also have no desire to try every obscure oil under the sun. Buying over the internet is another thing I'd rather not do as its just easier for me to stop by a retailer when I'm driving by and pick some up.

How do you feel about the oils that are labeled "for injection or premix"?

 

[bwalker]

How do you feel about the oils that are labeled "for injection or premix"?

Most injection oils are labeled exactly like that. I will not use any dual purpose oil, period.

 

[Ilmater]

An injection oil is a comprise and one I don't care nor have to make.

I'm not telling anyone to use the Lucas injection oil. Nothing wrong with someone testing different products even if you will never use them.

Ditto with a marine oil.

To each their own:
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/showthread.php?s=9095e785d21d78d32f216c0a82558b72&t=74239&page=2

Figured I would jump in here with a different perspective.

I fly 2 gasser helicopters that run consistently in the 12500-14000 rpm range and don't get even close to the amount of cooling and airflow that air engines do.

I have been running pennzoil marine (this EXACT oil in question by the OP) for over 2 years. Both my engines are $500+ modified engines by TRM (Toxic Racing) and BH (BH Hanson). Both oils have been tested and BH Hanson even recommends it as an option.

The Oil was originally tested and verified to work exceptionally well by Chris Bergen of Bergen RC Helicopters and has been used and is currently being used by a very large segment of the Gasser RC Heli Community. You can do a search at Helifreak and Runryder.com and see that this oil has undergone some serous discussion and scrutiny.

I am currently running it in my DLE35RA and have had the engine apart and it looks wonderful on the inside...just like the rest of my engines.

The ONLY complaint I have ever had is that it does build up a small amount of carbon. BUT, I have yet to find an oil that doesn't. There are many variables to that and, per Al at TRM, a small heart shaped carbon pattern on the top of the piston is normal.

In summary, using this oil is perfectly fine. It runs exceptionally well and WILL NOT damage your engine. If you are concerned, as others have stated, there are tons of oils out there to choose from and at the end of the day, if it makes you feel better, go with something else. BUT.....you can run it and your engine will be perfectly fine.

Anyone who states anything negative about it is simply misinformed or offering pure opinions. We all have opinions, but my statements and results are based on facts collected and experienced by myself and experts in the RC engine industry...not weekend worriers with a keyboard and a mouse.

To answer the OP specifically: PENZOIL Marine full synthetic is GOOD

Good air cooled pre mix only oils are readily available, so why not use the correct oil type for the application?

Here's an ashless ester based oil that says it can be used for either air cooled or water cooled engines:

http://www.lubegard.com/LXE.aspx
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-307/LUBEGARD+Premium+2+Cycle+Engine+Oil

 

[KG441c]

 

[Jimbo209]

View attachment 448280

Noob Q here (and a a s h I t stirring one as well)
Does that suggest that a CSM UNDER CONSTANT LOAD may simulate a outboard motor as it does 7500-9500 under load for a extended time
Thanks guys

 

[KG441c]

Without making the thread any more pointless as its become use the table for simplicity. Different applications use different oils and the 2 oils are formulated differently. Why cross them? Use the proper oil or better yet do as Brad said previoisly use what makes you feel warm and fuzzy and concentrate on things that matter such as chain and tuning

 

[KG441c]

They make air cooled premixes for more extreme conditions such as bike racing and milling. Why use injection or tcw premixes?

 

[bwalker]

I'm not telling anyone to use the Lucas injection oil. Nothing wrong with someone testing different products even if you will never use them.


To each their own:
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/showthread.php?s=9095e785d21d78d32f216c0a82558b72&t=74239&page=2


Here's an ashless ester based oil that says it can be used for either air cooled or water cooled engines:

http://www.lubegard.com/LXE.aspx
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-307/LUBEGARD+Premium+2+Cycle+Engine+Oil

Just because someone has used it or because the bottle says it's ok, doesn't mean it is. And again what's so hard about using the correct oil for the application as there are a ton of them out there?
It's your equipment, do what you like, just don't suggest a marine oil or a multi purpose oil are as good as a dedicated pre mix oil for air cooled engines.

 

[Ilmater]

Just because someone has used it or because the bottle says it's ok, doesn't mean it is.

Right, and if you say all dual purpose oils aren't ok for air-cooled use, doesn't necessarily mean it they aren't, either. If you haven't personally tested a product appropriately, then saying said oil isn't legitimate is baseless.

And again what's so hard about using the correct oil for the application as there are a ton of them out there?

You're actually in agreement with me. The point of me listing all those oils is expressly to put their names out there so that people might be inclined to test them, to see how they actually perform with real world testing. No one in their right mind uses a product primarily based on what's printed on it's label. I'm even considering sending one or two people here some Lubegard at my expense for testing because I don't have the time or resources to do so extensively myself.

LUBEGARD® technology was developed under the direction of Phillip S. Landis, Ph.D., a highly distinguished research chemist who headed the Mobil Oil Applied Lubrication Research Group until his retirement in 1984. Dr. Landis is a worldwide leader in the mechanistic studies of elimination, rearrangement and pyrolysis reactions of additive preparations for fuel and lubricant applications, and of catalytic organic reactions and petrochemicals. He holds more than one hundred patents.

ILI's groundbreaking research in vegetable-based replacements of hydrocarbon oils has led to research grants in excess of $2 million from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the Department of Defense and the Soy Bean Board. The Agricultural Research and Commercialization Corporation, a division of the USDA, believes so strongly in ILI's products and research that they own stock in the company.

International Lubricants, Inc., currently holds over forty US and foreign patents. Their research efforts ensure that they remain on the cutting edge of new product development and product improvements.

Employed by Mobil Research and Development Corp. 1947-1948, Dr. Landis was awarded a company incentive fellowship. He attended Northwestern University and received a Ph.D. in Organic Chemistry in 1958. His initial work with Mobil involved the synthesis of hydrocarbon-soluble additives for fuels and lubricants at Mobil’s Applied Research Laboratories in Paulsboro, N.J. He was a group leader in petrochemicals for several years and transferred to Mobil’s Central Research Laboratories in Princeton, N.J., where he led groups studying catalysis of organic reactions and oxidations.

He became manager of the Applied Research Group in 1970. Landis’s early career was concerned with mechanistic studies of elimination, rearrangement and pyrolysis reactions of additive preparations for fuel and lubricant applications of catalytic organic reactions (and of petrochemicals).

Landis holds 72 patents and is published extensively in major technical chemistry journals. After retiring from Mobil in 1984, he joined the staff at Glassboro State College where he was a Distinguished Scientist-in-Residence. In addition, he is a lubrication design consultant and stockholder with International Lubricants Inc. of Seattle.

Dr. Phillip Landis was involved in the development of Lubegard
and Mobil 1.

http://www.lubegard.se/docs/swissmotor_e.pdf

They make air cooled premixes for more extreme conditions such as bike racing and milling. Why use injection or tcw premixes?

Why don't you ask the half a dozen or so people in this very thread that use, and/or mentioned Lucas Semi Synthetic? Look it up on amazon and read the 4-5 star reviews. Are all these people shills? You must know something they don't. Call Lucas and tell them to stop their false advertising that how dare they claim you can have something designated as suitable for BOTH injection and premix applications.

http://lucasoil.com/products/2-cycle-oil/semi-synthetic-2-cycle-oil

 

[bwalker]

Right, and if you say all dual purpose oils aren't ok for air-cooled use, doesn't necessarily mean it they aren't, either. If you haven't personally tested a product appropriately, then saying something isn't legitimate is baseless.


You're actually in agreement with me. The point of me listing all those oils is expressly to put their names out there so that people might be inclined to test them, to see how they actually perform with real world testing. No one in their right mind uses a product primarily based on what's printed on it's label. I'm even considering sending one or two people here some Lubegard at my expense for testing because I don't have the time or resources to do so extensively myself.


http://www.lubegard.se/docs/swissmotor_e.pdf

One thing I can say definitely is that multi use products have much lower viscosities and as such lower film strengths. This is not questionable.
Do you have any connection with Lube Guard?
Again, why make a compromise you don't have to make?

 

[Ron660]

Best I remember the VP premix 94 octane cans uses Motul 710 2-cycle oil which is labeled as an injector oil.

 

[bwalker]

And plenty of people are sucked in to marketing on the label.

 

[bwalker]

Best I remember the VP premix 94 octane cans uses Motul 710 2-cycle oil which is labeled as an injector oil.

I don't believe that was ever confirmed?
With that said, I would not use it if that's the case.

 

[Ilmater]

One thing I can say definitely is that multi use products have much lower viscosities and as such lower film strengths. This is not questionable.

1st part is true. However, if film strength was severely compromised at a low viscosity then why haven't millions of car engines failed running on 0w-20 motor oils? (even cars specced for SAE30 by the mfg, running just fine with SAE20)

Do you have any connection with Lube Guard?

None.

Again, why make a compromise you don't have to make?

One reason a lot of people might "compromise" here is that they want to save money, while still maintaining high quality.

 

[bwalker]

1st part is true. However, if film strength was severely compromised at a low viscosity then why haven't millions of car engines failed running on 0w-20 motor oils? (even cars specced for SAE30 by the mfg, running just fine with SAE20)

None.

One reason a lot of people might "compromise" here is that they want to save money, while still maintaining high quality.

Your comparing apples to oranges with the car engine comparison and for several reasons.
Price isn't an issue as dedicated premix oils range from cheap to expensive.
So again, why do you chose compromise?
And Lubegard at $15 plus shipping isn't exactly cheap

 

[Ilmater]

Your comparing apples to oranges with the car engine comparison and for several reasons.

Okay, post proof then that a lower viscosity 2T oil always means that it's film strength must also decrease in proportion to it. You don't think that technology might have enabled the formulation of new lower viscosity 2t ester based oils that still have the film strength of higher viscosity synthetics?

So again, why do you chose compromise?

I own, and have used, your favorite oil (M1R), which I made a concerted effort to get a hold of, partly based on your own findings and recommendations in posts about it years ago, so it's odd that you come off like you think I have any desire to compromise. Experimentation =/= compromise.

And Lubegard at $15 plus shipping isn't exactly cheap

You can get it elsewhere with free shipping.