Which Klotz?

[MacLaren]

I believe I will use this Bel-Ray H1R.

 

[MacLaren]

Don't focus just on the flash point, the whole formula of the oil works together, flash point is just one part of that formula.

Andy, I always like to ask ya oil related questions. just one more. So, deposits left upon the piston due to a high flash point is really no concern right? Thats the only reason i was looking into the Klotz Light and the Honda HP2 was due to lower flash points. Just being picky really. I was thinking that the Klotz Light would be good because with the lower flash point you wouldnt get any biuld up on the piston plus the protection of Klotz. Or would the Klotz Light give the same protection as the R-50 or K2 per say. Thanks Andy

 

[sachsmo]

I remember the Dirt squirts, Super rats and the little yellow mini bikes.

 

[Andyshine77]

Andy, I always like to ask ya oil related questions. just one more. So, deposits left upon the piston due to a high flash point is really no concern right? Thats the only reason i was looking into the Klotz Light and the Honda HP2 was due to lower flash points. Just being picky really. I was thinking that the Klotz Light would be good because with the lower flash point you wouldnt get any biuld up on the piston plus the protection of Klotz. Or would the Klotz Light give the same protection as the R-50 or K2 per say. Thanks Andy

A thin layer of carbon on the piston crown is inevitable. A crust of carbon can cause serous issues, from hot spots, to carbon scoring. I can't seem to find any info on Klotz Lite other than the description on the Klotz site. From what it says, it's simply Original Techniplate that's been thinned with solvents, I'd just run the Original Techniplate, it burns really clean anyway. The only downside to Original Techniplate is the fact it doesn't store well, and has been known to cause bottom end corrosion issues, the formula is highly hygroscopic. Original Techniplate is a unique formula that uses plant based oils (mostly banana oils) and is one reason it smells different. At the time it was the best oil going, until esters and other synthetic oils became more and more available in the late 60's and early 70's.

Would Klotz Lite offer as much protection in extreme conditions as R50 or K2? Likely not, but where that extreme line is, I simply don't know. Feel free to try theses oils out for a year or so, if everything looks nice keep running it. Fresh fuel a properly tuned and running saw is more important anyway.

 

[Tzed250]

Yeah, the snowmobile techniplate is exactly what I have. The guy on the Klotz 800 number says the only difference between the Snowmobile Techniplate and the Motorcycle Techniplate is the decal on the jug.

Maybe I'm not getting "the smell" because it's not actually burning because the flash point is too high?

I think next time I'll try the Super Techniplate with the 20% bean oil, but this gallon is going to last me a while...




I think my dad had a 100, maybe a Super Rat? One of the other guys at the dirt pit had a 125 Combat Wombat and apparently it was the one to beat.

The "racy smell" is castor oil being burnt. Castor bean oil has been used as a high performance lubricant for more than 100 years. One of the earlier posts mentioned a headache after using premix with castor oil in it. Some will remember that another product of the Castor plant is the poison Ricin. It was not uncommon for pilots in WW1 to vomit after exposure to the castor oil expelled by the total loss oiling systems used in that era. A little research will show that castor oil has unique properties not matched by other lubes. When the chips are down for a high perf two-stroke the safe bet is an oil that includes at least some castor.

 

[Andyshine77]

The "racy smell" is castor oil being burnt. Castor bean oil has been used as a high performance lubricant for more than 100 years. One of the earlier posts mentioned a headache after using premix with castor oil in it. Some will remember that another product of the Castor plant is the poison Ricin. It was not uncommon for pilots in WW1 to vomit after exposure to the castor oil expelled by the total loss oiling systems used in that era. A little research will show that castor oil has unique properties not matched by other lubes. When the chips are down for a high perf two-stroke the safe bet is an oil that includes at least some castor.

100% correct, the WW1 pilots had some bad effects from castor oil, including permanent nerve damage. The unique property of caster oil is the fact it polymerizes in extreme heat, and maintains a lubricating layer. However when this layer cools it sticks to the metal parts creating a nasty gummy layer of varnish, this creates an all new problem. Caster oil has it's uses, but that list is small, esters can do pretty much anything caster oils can, plus a few things caster can't, and without any of the other issues.

 

[Anthony_Va.]

I think I may try that K2 next. I'm about out of my R50.

It's been some real good oil though. I just like to try different things.

I still want to check inside my cylinders to see if there's any real buildup. I'll post results tomorrow.

 

[young]

I think I may try that K@ next. I'm about out of my R50.

It's been some real good oil though. I just like to try different things.

I still want to check inside my cylinders to see if there's any real buildup. I'll post results tomorrow.

do it now. t27 and a flat head. ten mins tops hahaha.

 

[Anthony_Va.]

do it now. t27 and a flat head. ten mins tops hahaha.

Lol. Shew man, I don't know if I want to get into it tonight. :msp_biggrin:

2AM, 30° outside and the saws are in the truck. I'm in my PJ's. Nah, I think tomorrow. Plus, gotta get up at 5:30 to do some deer hunting.

But, if you think about it man, remind me when I'm on tomorrow evening in case I forget.

 

[young]

Lol. Shew man, I don't know if I want to get into it tonight. :msp_biggrin:

2AM, 30° outside and the saws are in the truck. I'm in my PJ's. Nah, I think tomorrow. Plus, gotta get up at 5:30 to do some deer hunting.

But, if you think about it man, remind me when I'm on tomorrow evening in case I forget.

deal hahaha

 

[Little Al]

I looked to see what brands I had available.
I can git
Klots super techniplate
Klotz snowmobile
Maxima K2
Belray H1R
Ipone
Lucas
Spectro
To list most of them. These are through my atv parts dist. I think I want to try the Ipone. Sposed to have strawberry smell.

If you are giving IPONE a try & can obtain it on your side of the pond may I suggest SAMORAI 100% syn & can be obtained [here any way] either plain or strawberry scented

 

[MacLaren]

A thin layer of carbon on the piston crown is inevitable. A crust of carbon can cause serous issues, from hot spots, to carbon scoring. I can't seem to find any info on Klotz Lite other than the description on the Klotz site. From what it says, it's simply Original Techniplate that's been thinned with solvents, I'd just run the Original Techniplate, it burns really clean anyway. The only downside to Original Techniplate is the fact it doesn't store well, and has been known to cause bottom end corrosion issues, the formula is highly hygroscopic. Original Techniplate is a unique formula that uses plant based oils (mostly banana oils) and is one reason it smells different. At the time it was the best oil going, until esters and other synthetic oils became more and more available in the late 60's and early 70's.

Would Klotz Lite offer as much protection in extreme conditions as R50 or K2? Likely not, but where that extreme line is, I simply don't know. Feel free to try theses oils out for a year or so, if everything looks nice keep running it. Fresh fuel a properly tuned and running saw is more important anyway.

Thanks for the info Andy. I may very well try this Bel-Ray H1R.

 

[Tzed250]

100% correct, the WW1 pilots had some bad effects from castor oil, including permanent nerve damage. The unique property of caster oil is the fact it polymerizes in extreme heat, and maintains a lubricating layer. However when this layer cools it sticks to the metal parts creating a nasty gummy layer of varnish, this creates an all new problem. Caster oil has it's uses, but that list is small, esters can do pretty much anything caster oils can, plus a few things caster can't, and without any of the other issues.

Almost, but not quite :msp_biggrin:. Castor is still in widespread use by kart racers, model engine groups, roadracers, MX, etc. When you say esters wil do pretty much anything that castor will do that is correct. The one thing they wont do is, as you mentioned, grow polymer chains in extreme heat. Esters break down in this environment, like most any other lubricant. This nasty gummy layer of varnish you talk about I have not seen in decades. The de-gummed racing castor available now is quite clean. I ran my TZ250 for an entire season on castor based lube. It was pulled down after every race weekend and there were never any deposits that couldn't wiped off with a rag. To show the amount of trust I had in castor oil, I was using it to protect an engine that had two piston/cylinder sets that cost $600 each to replace. The crank set was $1800 by itself. The only thing I had to do was replace the pistons at the end of their scheduled life. I also trusted the oil to keep my hind end safe. A top end siezure while headed into the backstraight dip at Road Atlanta at 160MPH is a rather undesirable thing.

I'm not about to tell anybody what oil to run. But I can share my own personal results with oils that have worked for me. Ever since Stihl introduced the Ultra synthetic my OPE has been run run with a pre-mix of Ultra at the recommended ratio, with one ounce per gallon of Klotz Super Techniplate added. My top ends have stayed clean as a whistle.

 

[one.man.band]

for sachsmo:

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/chainsaw/205950d1320615841-sanford-aunt-esther-jpg

 

[ECsaws]

I'm not about to tell anybody what oil to run. But I can share my own personal results with oils that have worked for me. Ever since Stihl introduced the Ultra synthetic my OPE has been run run with a pre-mix of Ultra at the recommended ratio, with one ounce per gallon of Klotz Super Techniplate added. My top ends have stayed clean as a whistle.

I agree 100% ...run what ever oil you feel comfy running. One thing "I" always consider, will this oil I'm pouring in this gas can mix with alcohol (ethanol)? cuz ya neaver know whats in that gas unless your running something other than pump gas...

 

[Tzed250]

I agree 100% ...run what ever oil you feel comfy running. One thing "I" always consider, will this oil I'm pouring in this gas can mix with alcohol (ethanol)? cuz ya neaver know whats in that gas unless your running something other than pump gas...

Isn't that the truth. Every time you stop at a gas station it's like you're buying a pig in a poke.

 

[komatsuvarna]

How do you guys think Stihl ultra compares to say the Maxima K2, or Belray H1R?

Ive just always run ultra cause its good oil and easy to get, and never really give it much thought if there was anything better. The ultra does seem to do a good job, and keeps everything pretty clean even at 37:1. ( 2 gallon mix in 1.5 gallon gas...easy to remember lol) There are 2 good bike stores in town, might go see what else is available to me in a bit.

 

[JoeB]

Any body run amsoil dominator ? I have run it and have had no problems . My step daughter races 2 stroke 4 wheelers and that is what I run in her quads . I am going to buy a new saw soon an I'm wondering if amsoil at 50:1 will be fine . I don't want to have to keep 2 different oils around but i will if I need to . I also keep race gas that is 112 octane around . Will that hurt a saw if I run a little in it ? Don't plan on that all the time but I don't like the race gas getting to old .
Thanks

 

[K&L Landscaping]

How do you guys think Stihl ultra compares to say the Maxima K2, or Belray H1R?

I really like the Stihl Ultra HP too but this stuff is getting ultra expensive! I'm seriously considering making the switch to Amsoil Saber. I use A LOT of mixed fuel over the course of a season and from the quick math I did it looks like I could save upwards of $500 annually.

 

[komatsuvarna]

I really like the Stihl Ultra HP too but this stuff is getting ultra expensive! I'm seriously considering making the switch to Amsoil Saber. I use A LOT of mixed fuel over the course of a season and from the quick math I did it looks like I could save upwards of $500 annually.

$$500!!, Id probably do it, thats alot of extra Beer money lol.

Really, Ive never herd of nothing bad with the Saber, and several swear by it.:smile2: