661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[Andyshine77]

andy must have a piltz saw????

Ahahaha. Over porting can happen, sometimes just bad numbers, the list goes on. I've gone into the same saw more than once to get it running right, sometimes it's nice just to get back to stock lol. Look I'm not after anyone, but I've ran as many duds, as runners, some were my own.

 

[bwalker]

Ahahaha. Over porting can happen, sometimes just bad numbers, the list goes on. I've gone into the same saw more than once to get it running right, sometimes it's nice just to get back to stock lol. Look I'm not after anyone, but I've ran as many duds, as runners, some were my own.

Just like this subject is over simplified, so is porting. Many hacks over the years have ruined saws by plugging in bs numbers. There is more to porting than numbers.

 

[nitehawk55]

OK, Red Bull has spent a lot of $ doing what everyone here seems to think is a BS test. So who is next up with their $ to test the way they think is the appropriate way to test?

Easy to sit on the sidelines. I'm ready to spend $. Anyone else?

We could raise $ from a pool of serious people that would post the closed results to only those willing to buy in and choose a testing agent and buy the saws, chains, oils, etc. Those not interested in spending $ can sit in the dark and wonder and armchair all they want. Like most of us are doing here now.

Let's start with $100 buy in. Any takers? I choose Andre' for the tester. Then when the results are posted he can feel what it is like to have his test called BS. We need one other willing to verify results. Those testing get a free pass of the buy in. Heck, let's go $200. For that we can buy some nice saws to run this test. Sell them off when finished and disperse the funds. Oils, chains, all the expenses we have enjoyed from ONE guy, Red Bull, now can be shared with everyone.

Suggestions?

Nothing needed here , I'm going to play with the Saber mix from 40;1-50;1 . If I notice anything worth mentioning I'll let you know . I'm not trying racing mixes or any other fancy oils . Saber is a straight forward 2 cycle mix that is JASO FD rated which is supposed to be capable to run up to a 100:1 mix . Some have mentioned in this thread and others they have run it up to that with no issues . Myself I feel at 50:1 it's supplying lots of lubrication and being a full synthetic it'll protect at cold or hotter operating temps and will hold up better to extreams . I want to see a nice sheen of oil on the internal parts , not excess oil slobbering out the muffler , that is simply wasted oil .

And for sure run a high test non ethanol fuel , doesn't have to be av gas or 110 racing fuel , Shell V-power in this area is E-free and fine for use in saws .

 

[bwalker]

Nothing needed here , I'm going to play with the Saber mix from 40;1-50;1 . If I notice anything worth mentioning I'll let you know . I'm not trying racing mixes or any other fancy oils . Saber is a straight forward 2 cycle mix that is JASO FD rated which is supposed to be capable to run up to a 100:1 mix . Some have mentioned in this thread and others they have run it up to that with no issues . Myself I feel at 50:1 it's supplying lots of lubrication and being a full synthetic it'll protect at cold or hotter operating temps and will hold up better to extreams . I want to see a nice sheen of oil on the internal parts , not excess oil slobbering out the muffler , that is simply wasted oil .

And for sure run a high test non ethanol fuel , doesn't have to be av gas or 110 racing fuel , Shell V-power in this area is E-free and fine for use in saws .

It would be nearly impossible for a 100:1 oil to meet JASO FD. Parts of the test are ran at 10:1 and below and a thick viscous oil or one doped with lots of an zinc AW additives won't pass. In order for a 100:1 oil to wprk it will have to have one of both of these properties.
This is one of the reasons I detest Amsoil. Their marketing is intentionally very misleading.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

i feel 50:1 is safe but the only reason i use 32:1 is because i have a mower than burns mix and it doesn't like 50:1 and the carb is non adjustable
my stuff doesn't slobber the mufflers are bone dry and the exhaust port is slightly damp. i dont tune anything pig rich
either i tune it according to the specs in the manual.

 

[Andyshine77]

I find it interesting how much the label on Saber has changed. That 100:1 print sure has gotten small.

Old lable.



New label.

 

[bwalker]

Btw some seem to think that great advancements were made in saw technology ans that they allowed 50:1 to work well. This is false. The piston material, cylinder coatings are basicly 40 year old technology.

 

[bwalker]

I find it interesting how much the label on Saber has changed. That 100:1 print sure has gotten small.

Old lable.

View attachment 423320

New label.

View attachment 423322

Might as well put BS! on the label....

 

[mdavlee]

If I had home time I'd do more tests. I have access to some bigger trees but hate to cookie up a cherry log.

I've only had 2 oils that my Echo Weedeater doesn't like and that's H1r and super techniplate. It's a fixed H jet. It really likes Vp gas and K2. It doesn't mind r50, 800, 927, or original techniplate @32:1.

 

[nitehawk55]

It would be nearly impossible for a 100:1 oil to meet JASO FD. Parts of the test are ran at 10:1 and below and a thick viscous oil or one dope with lots of an zinc AW additives won't pass.
This is one of the reasons I detest Amsoil. Their marketing is very misleading.

I have to see proof to say other wise . I was involved in saw testing and the like for Stihl some years back . Even their standard oil mix stood up to 70:1 , this was supplied by Castrol to spec for Stihl and was a joint test by both compaies on several pieces of equipment in the field under tough test conditions , tore down and inspected for any issues....none .
ANY good oil at a 50:1 mix is suitable for most saws , I can agree on 40:1 for some bigger and modified saws as it may help with the extra lube but this whole thread has pretty much become a bunch of guys obsessing and wondering if the oil and mix ratios they use is OK or not or makes any difference in power . Too many variables can have different outcomes , it's all subject to many things .
Thick mixtures are most likely to cause a saw to lean out then do any good .

 

[bwalker]

I have to see proof to say other wise . I was involved in saw testing and the like for Stihl some years back . Even their standard oil mix stood up to 70:1 , this was supplied by Castrol to spec for Stihl and was a joint test by both compaies on several pieces of equipment in the field under tough test conditions , tore down and inspected for any issues....none .
ANY good oil at a 50:1 mix is suitable for most saws , I can agree on 40:1 for some bigger and modified saws as it may help with the extra lube but this whole thread has pretty much become a bunch of guys obsessing and wondering if the oil and mix ratios they use is OK or not or makes any difference in power . Too many variables can have different outcomes , it's all subject to many things .
Thick mixtures are most likely to cause a saw to lean out then do any good .

I will one up you and say that I could mix up some k2 or 2r at 100:1 and my saw would run just fine. But what happens when you do that day after day, year after year. I know from expiereance in the auto industry that R&D testing is a a poor substitute for track record in the field over time.

 

[Andyshine77]

If I had home time I'd do more tests. I have access to some bigger trees but hate to cookie up a cherry log.

I've only had 2 oils that my Echo Weedeater doesn't like and that's H1r and super techniplate. It's a fixed H jet. It really likes Vp gas and K2. It doesn't mind r50, 800, 927, or original techniplate @32:1.

I had the exact same experience with H1R and super techniplate, both seem to learn out the air fuel ratio.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

if you have a newish echo trimmer 1-3 yrs old it should have a rotary barrel zama carb they say there not adjustable but i know where the h speed mixture screw is

 

[Moparmyway]

a rotary barrel zama carb they say there not adjustable but i know where the h speed mixture screw is

Care to elaborate ?
What Zama model # ?

 

[mdavlee]

if you have a newish echo trimmer 1-3 yrs old it should have a rotary barrel zama carb they say there not adjustable but i know where the h speed mixture screw is

It's 4 or 5 years old. It seems to be a good tester about how much the oil effects tuning.

 

[bwalker]

why am I not competent?

please describe the method that you want want done.

please describe the appropriate information that needs to be presented.

Not to insult you redbull, but there are so many variable you are not controlling that any yest you perform is at least somewhat suspect.
Really this test would need to be ran on a GOOD dyno with someone who knows how to operate it.

 

[bwalker]

RE: two stoke oil affecting octane. I asked a guy I know who is an expert on this and he basicly responded that a good two cycle oil has no effect on octane, but some poor ones do.

 

[porsche965]

RE: two stoke oil affecting octane. I asked a guy I know who is an expert on this and he basicly responded that a good two cycle oil has no effect on octane, but some poor ones do.

That's interesting.

If you ran a poor oil at 32:1 would the volume of oil make up for the poor quality?

 

[bwalker]

That's interesting.

If you ran a poor oil at 32:1 would the volume of oil make up for the poor quality?

No.

 

[bwalker]

RE: two stoke oil affecting octane. I asked a guy I know who is an expert on this and he basicly responded that a good two cycle oil has no effect on octane, but some poor ones do.

Here is the exact quote"

"Depends on the oil. The really good stuff like Xamax have no real impact even at high concentrations, but it's not a blanket statement by any means. Some are really bad."