Saw life?

[camel2019]

Give me anything with a carb and I can have it running right in now time give something that could have problems with the electronics and it will take a little longe. Some things should be kept to the KISS principal simple is better idk how small equipment got thrown into the ring with the emissions compliance stuff I doubt running a saw has much effect but what do I know.

to add to this everyone hates points and carbs but what would you rather be stud on the side of the road with simple tech tha can be fixed with a couple wrench’s and a screwdriver or something you need to pull out the laptop for.

 

[bwalker]

Car diagnostics started _very_ proprietary too (of course), even with different connectors/protocols between different models of the same brand. Do I need to mention chargers for cell phones? Mfgs will try to screw you like that at every chance they get. And in the end it is almost always decided that it is smarter to develop standards and use these (like OBD2). Of course, next step will be that the mfg thinks of a new feature ("innovation") that "absolutely" cannot be integrated in the standard way of doing things and we start the same dance all over...
Innovation will often mean breaking with standard ways of doing things and introducing something new, but as general rule it sure looks like mfgs are resistant to learning from past "proprietary protocol" errors and will try this game again and again before deciding to work together on a standard that would also benefit themselves in terms of production cost and wider acceptance of their products.
How long have we had autotune/mtronics now?
Imho it's long overdue that the likes of Stihl, Husqvarna, Honda, Stiga etc. sit together and develop a standard diagnostics tool and protocol for reading and programming small engine equipment, comparable to OBD or what have you. That's not rocket science either, or at least for them it shouldn't be.

All true.

 

[bwalker]

A Snap-On Verus Pro was $10,000 over 5 years back when it came out! This is one case where I'm thankful for chinese goods.

Automakers were forced into standardization by the government, so that said government could steal more of your money via emission testing. That it happened to make our lives easier as technicians was an accident.

IMO, electronics have ZERO place in any small engine. Anyone with proper knowledge can get an old school small engine to run as good and BETTER than anything electronically controlled. That's a fact.

You can't get a old school engine to run as clean as one without and that's a fact. Most guys can't tune a saw or any other carbeurated engine to save their lives.

 

[bwalker]

In my opinion, all vehicles should be made of entirely stainless steel, or perhaps aluminum. The idea that we still have vehicles rusting when the technology exists to prevent rust entirely is crazy.

Or perhaps road salt should be discontinued?

 

[bwalker]

to add to this everyone hates points and carbs but what would you rather be stud on the side of the road with simple tech tha can be fixed with a couple wrench’s and a screwdriver or something you need to pull out the laptop for.

The days of being stuck on the side of the road pretty much ended with the demise of points and carbs.

 

[camel2019]

The days of being stuck on the side of the road pretty much ended with the demise of points and carbs.

Not really see plenty people stuck awaiting a tow truck probably due to most people just driving a vehicle and not doing anything but changing the oil but still. I was stranded last summer but that was because the guy I got bought my truck off of didn’t torque down the converter bolts when he swapped the transmission.

 

[bwalker]

Not really see plenty people stuck awaiting a tow truck probably due to most people just driving a vehicle and not doing anything but changing the oil but still. I was stranded last summer but that was because the guy I got bought my truck off of didn’t torque down the converter bolts when he swapped the transmission.

Yea, they really have. Vehicles are much more reliable than they where when I was a kid in the early 80's.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

I beg to differ. I've got an '86 Grand Marquis with 288k on the clock, still running the ORIGINAL OE electric in-tank fuel pump - first year of multiport FI. Original engine, transmission, and rear end. I've owned this thing 19 years, and the wife an I have put 220k trouble free miles on this thing. If I added up every single repair and maintenance cost over the past 19 years, It's probably $4k tops. Same with our '93 Volvo 940 winter beater - 220k trouble free miles the past 6 years. I also have a 2007 Chevy Silverado 1500 4x4 with the 5.3, and 4L60E transmission- first new vehicle I've ever bought in my life, and will be the LAST. I could type 3 pages of the problems I've had with this toilet. Only has 118k miles, spend $31-LARGE to buy it, and I'm damned near close to that in repairs so far:

42 miles on the clock on the test drive, the brakes almost rattled the fillings out of my teeth.

Door trim fell off during week ONE.

Interior had more squeaks and rattles than my '94 K1500 with 266k miles on it - had a 5.7 TBI - ran like a top, too.

Had 4x4 issues at 2k miles - turned out to be the switch that conveniently failed out of warranty.

5-6 brake jobs (I lost count!) under warranty that never fixed the pulsation.

Lower ball joint - junk at 38k.

Front strut junk, and upper ball joints junk at 50k - engine also started to burn oil then, and the front diff began to leak out the axle seals.

Hub bearings failed at 60k - I ran it to 75k when the noise finally became unbearable. Replaced both.

Rear differential failed at 97k, probably sooner. I only discovered the failure during a fluid change. Magnet LOADED with metal. Several tips of the spider gear teeth were in the magnet. This wore out the carrier to the point where it was unusable. The G80 clutches were also smoked to metal.

Transmission lost 3rd and 4th gear due to clutch pack burnup. 103k miles. Common issue with the newer 4L60E. Never happened at such low miles in the 90's. My Amsoil Signature Series ATF was still as red as the day I installed it, too.

105k miles - door hinges were completely smoked! My '72 El Camino's hinges were over 30 years old, as were my '86 Grand Marquis' hinges. That's a good lifespan. Not 14 years of LIGHT usage, and WITH maintenace! I always greased these. I RARELY greased the Marquis or 'Camino's hinges! 105k miles is usually done in 2-3 years by most people these days.

My engine oil samples have consistently shown high wear metals, even with Amsoil Signature Series oil dumped FAR before it's life was over. The engine has been failing since 70k miles, albeit slowly.

Just had to drop another few grand to get rid of the failure prone AFM (4-cylinder mode) lifters - takes 20 hours plus to R&R the lifters and cam.


I see all the bad stuff with modern vehicles. Electronics are great ... when they work. One mouse-chewed, corroded, or broken wire, and your vehicle takes a **** in the middle of a 4 lane expressway at rush hour. Good luck finding that wire without $5k worth of diagnostic equipment. I'd GLADLY go back to points and carburetors!

Only people that hated points are GM owners, because they stuck the distributor way in the back up against the firewall, lol. They were so painfully simple to deal with damned near everyone adjusted them themselves. The people that had the most trouble didn't have the patience to take 5 minutes to learn how they work, and what they need to be right. My grandfather hauled my dad, my aunts, and grandmother all over the country from MA to CA in the 1950's - never got stuck on the side of the road. He also pulled a camper through the late 50's to mid 70's, with a CAR. Never left stranded. My dad put 100k miles on his '66 Mustang in 2 years flat going back and forth from central MA to Nova Scotia, and his naval base up in ME. Hell, my grandfather used to take is Model T up to Nova Scotia every summer. Keep your stuff in tune, and it doesn't break.

He did get stuck with the Model T once. Spun the babbit con-rod bearing. He cut part of his belt off on the side of the road, wrapped it around the journal, bolted the cap back on, dumped the old oil back in through a few rags, and drove 400 miles back to MA. You can have all this modern crap as far as I'm concerned.

This RD350 still runs dual carbs, and dual points. Starts 3 kicks after sitting all winter. 4 if it sits over 6 months. When I ride it regularly, ONE kick. Hasn't left me stranded in 11 years since the restoration. Super easy to tune. I've had the same set of points AND condensers for 11 years, too. The key to running carbs with the complete crap fuel we have today, is every single time I come home, I shut the fuel off at a predetermined point, so that I coast into my driveway here on full choke and fumes. You MUST empty the bowls EVERY time you park it. Trouble free for 11 years and counting.

 

[camel2019]

I beg to differ. I've got an '86 Grand Marquis with 288k on the clock, still running the ORIGINAL OE electric in-tank fuel pump - first year of multiport FI. Original engine, transmission, and rear end. I've owned this thing 19 years, and the wife an I have put 220k trouble free miles on this thing. If I added up every single repair and maintenance cost over the past 19 years, It's probably $4k tops. Same with our '93 Volvo 940 winter beater - 220k trouble free miles the past 6 years. I also have a 2007 Chevy Silverado 1500 4x4 with the 5.3, and 4L60E transmission- first new vehicle I've ever bought in my life, and will be the LAST. I could type 3 pages of the problems I've had with this toilet. Only has 118k miles, spend $31-LARGE to buy it, and I'm damned near close to that in repairs so far:

42 miles on the clock on the test drive, the brakes almost rattled the fillings out of my teeth.

Door trim fell off during week ONE.

Interior had more squeaks and rattles than my '94 K1500 with 266k miles on it - had a 5.7 TBI - ran like a top, too.

Had 4x4 issues at 2k miles - turned out to be the switch that conveniently failed out of warranty.

5-6 brake jobs (I lost count!) under warranty that never fixed the pulsation.

Lower ball joint - junk at 38k.

Front strut junk, and upper ball joints junk at 50k - engine also started to burn oil then, and the front diff began to leak out the axle seals.

Hub bearings failed at 60k - I ran it to 75k when the noise finally became unbearable. Replaced both.

Rear differential failed at 97k, probably sooner. I only discovered the failure during a fluid change. Magnet LOADED with metal. Several tips of the spider gear teeth were in the magnet. This wore out the carrier to the point where it was unusable. The G80 clutches were also smoked to metal.

Transmission lost 3rd and 4th gear due to clutch pack burnup. 103k miles. Common issue with the newer 4L60E. Never happened at such low miles in the 90's. My Amsoil Signature Series ATF was still as red as the day I installed it, too.

105k miles - door hinges were completely smoked! My '72 El Camino's hinges were over 30 years old, as were my '86 Grand Marquis' hinges. That's a good lifespan. Not 14 years of LIGHT usage, and WITH maintenace! I always greased these. I RARELY greased the Marquis or 'Camino's hinges! 105k miles is usually done in 2-3 years by most people these days.

My engine oil samples have consistently shown high wear metals, even with Amsoil Signature Series oil dumped FAR before it's life was over. The engine has been failing since 70k miles, albeit slowly.

Just had to drop another few grand to get rid of the failure prone AFM (4-cylinder mode) lifters - takes 20 hours plus to R&R the lifters and cam.


I see all the bad stuff with modern vehicles. Electronics are great ... when they work. One mouse-chewed, corroded, or broken wire, and your vehicle takes a **** in the middle of a 4 lane expressway at rush hour. Good luck finding that wire without $5k worth of diagnostic equipment. I'd GLADLY go back to points and carburetors!

Only people that hated points are GM owners, because they stuck the distributor way in the back up against the firewall, lol. They were so painfully simple to deal with damned near everyone adjusted them themselves. The people that had the most trouble didn't have the patience to take 5 minutes to learn how they work, and what they need to be right. My grandfather hauled my dad, my aunts, and grandmother all over the country from MA to CA in the 1950's - never got stuck on the side of the road. He also pulled a camper through the late 50's to mid 70's, with a CAR. Never left stranded. My dad put 100k miles on his '66 Mustang in 2 years flat going back and forth from central MA to Nova Scotia, and his naval base up in ME. Hell, my grandfather used to take is Model T up to Nova Scotia every summer. Keep your stuff in tune, and it doesn't break.

He did get stuck with the Model T once. Spun the babbit con-rod bearing. He cut part of his belt off on the side of the road, wrapped it around the journal, bolted the cap back on, dumped the old oil back in through a few rags, and drove 400 miles back to MA. You can have all this modern crap as far as I'm concerned.

This RD350 still runs dual carbs, and dual points. Starts 3 kicks after sitting all winter. 4 if it sits over 6 months. When I ride it regularly, ONE kick. Hasn't left me stranded in 11 years since the restoration. Super easy to tune. I've had the same set of points AND condensers for 11 years, too. The key to running carbs with the complete crap fuel we have today, is every single time I come home, I shut the fuel off at a predetermined point, so that I coast into my driveway here on full choke and fumes. You MUST empty the bowls EVERY time you park it. Trouble free for 11 years and counting.

View attachment 978136

Every time I get talked too about buying a new vehicle by my parents(or other people)I just say I will go buy a model t.when they ask why I say bc you can fix it on the side of the road with nothing more then some bubble gum and duct tape . I mean what other car do you know with a carb adjustment knob on the dash.

 

[bwalker]

I beg to differ. I've got an '86 Grand Marquis with 288k on the clock, still running the ORIGINAL OE electric in-tank fuel pump - first year of multiport FI. Original engine, transmission, and rear end. I've owned this thing 19 years, and the wife an I have put 220k trouble free miles on this thing. If I added up every single repair and maintenance cost over the past 19 years, It's probably $4k tops. Same with our '93 Volvo 940 winter beater - 220k trouble free miles the past 6 years. I also have a 2007 Chevy Silverado 1500 4x4 with the 5.3, and 4L60E transmission- first new vehicle I've ever bought in my life, and will be the LAST. I could type 3 pages of the problems I've had with this toilet. Only has 118k miles, spend $31-LARGE to buy it, and I'm damned near close to that in repairs so far:

42 miles on the clock on the test drive, the brakes almost rattled the fillings out of my teeth.

Door trim fell off during week ONE.

Interior had more squeaks and rattles than my '94 K1500 with 266k miles on it - had a 5.7 TBI - ran like a top, too.

Had 4x4 issues at 2k miles - turned out to be the switch that conveniently failed out of warranty.

5-6 brake jobs (I lost count!) under warranty that never fixed the pulsation.

Lower ball joint - junk at 38k.

Front strut junk, and upper ball joints junk at 50k - engine also started to burn oil then, and the front diff began to leak out the axle seals.

Hub bearings failed at 60k - I ran it to 75k when the noise finally became unbearable. Replaced both.

Rear differential failed at 97k, probably sooner. I only discovered the failure during a fluid change. Magnet LOADED with metal. Several tips of the spider gear teeth were in the magnet. This wore out the carrier to the point where it was unusable. The G80 clutches were also smoked to metal.

Transmission lost 3rd and 4th gear due to clutch pack burnup. 103k miles. Common issue with the newer 4L60E. Never happened at such low miles in the 90's. My Amsoil Signature Series ATF was still as red as the day I installed it, too.

105k miles - door hinges were completely smoked! My '72 El Camino's hinges were over 30 years old, as were my '86 Grand Marquis' hinges. That's a good lifespan. Not 14 years of LIGHT usage, and WITH maintenace! I always greased these. I RARELY greased the Marquis or 'Camino's hinges! 105k miles is usually done in 2-3 years by most people these days.

My engine oil samples have consistently shown high wear metals, even with Amsoil Signature Series oil dumped FAR before it's life was over. The engine has been failing since 70k miles, albeit slowly.

Just had to drop another few grand to get rid of the failure prone AFM (4-cylinder mode) lifters - takes 20 hours plus to R&R the lifters and cam.


I see all the bad stuff with modern vehicles. Electronics are great ... when they work. One mouse-chewed, corroded, or broken wire, and your vehicle takes a **** in the middle of a 4 lane expressway at rush hour. Good luck finding that wire without $5k worth of diagnostic equipment. I'd GLADLY go back to points and carburetors!

Only people that hated points are GM owners, because they stuck the distributor way in the back up against the firewall, lol. They were so painfully simple to deal with damned near everyone adjusted them themselves. The people that had the most trouble didn't have the patience to take 5 minutes to learn how they work, and what they need to be right. My grandfather hauled my dad, my aunts, and grandmother all over the country from MA to CA in the 1950's - never got stuck on the side of the road. He also pulled a camper through the late 50's to mid 70's, with a CAR. Never left stranded. My dad put 100k miles on his '66 Mustang in 2 years flat going back and forth from central MA to Nova Scotia, and his naval base up in ME. Hell, my grandfather used to take is Model T up to Nova Scotia every summer. Keep your stuff in tune, and it doesn't break.

He did get stuck with the Model T once. Spun the babbit con-rod bearing. He cut part of his belt off on the side of the road, wrapped it around the journal, bolted the cap back on, dumped the old oil back in through a few rags, and drove 400 miles back to MA. You can have all this modern crap as far as I'm concerned.

This RD350 still runs dual carbs, and dual points. Starts 3 kicks after sitting all winter. 4 if it sits over 6 months. When I ride it regularly, ONE kick. Hasn't left me stranded in 11 years since the restoration. Super easy to tune. I've had the same set of points AND condensers for 11 years, too. The key to running carbs with the complete crap fuel we have today, is every single time I come home, I shut the fuel off at a predetermined point, so that I coast into my driveway here on full choke and fumes. You MUST empty the bowls EVERY time you park it. Trouble free for 11 years and counting.

View attachment 978136

Nice RD. I had RD400 Daytona Special along with a Kenny Roberts edition RZ350 back early 2000's. I regret selling them.
Back to vehicles. Yes, its true GM has made junk for decades. You won't know what quality is until you buy a Toyota. My Tacoma has 200K on it and the only thing I've done to it are tires, brakes, and a acc belt. Not been easy miles either.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Even Toyota is slipping these days. I've got a customer that used to have a '07 Lexus RX350. I towed her here 3x in 2 years. First time was this stupidly engineered oil cooler hose that blew a pinhole out and pumped 5 quarts of oil out in 3 miles. If she lived another 100' up the road, she'd have smoked the engine.

Next tow was for the ignition switch seizing solid. Couldn't turn it, couldn't remove the key! I had to drag it on my trailer with the wheels locked. What a friggin job getting that stupid thing out of there ...

The final straw for her was when the entire electrical system crapped out and smoked her battery. The kick panel LED logo backlighting was on really dim at all times (which killed the battery), no crank, no start, no instrument cluster lights or any activity. I figured out the 150 or 200A J-case fuse (which is friggin BURIED in the fuse box and impossible to extract) for the alternator output corroded in half. Didn't blow - had an open from corrosion. Never saw that before in my life. Thing was also hopelessly stuck in the junction box! Since the thing was half shattered from trying to pick it out of there with my 11" needle nosed pliers, I just jabbed the center of it with the pliers and restored the connection. Thing fired right up and everything worked. She dumped it shortly after.

 

[KASH]

Every person I know that owns a 2007 or 2008 Gm truck has had endless problems.I have no brand loyalty when it comes to vehicles but have lucked out on my last two trucks .
88 Mazda not counting brakes or batteries or tires 550000 kilometers roughly320000 miles one gas tank rotted out from road salt one exhaust system changed timing belt on my mechanics advice it still looked like new to me. That was it always started not plugged in -40 below.
97 Dodge Ram 4x4 1 front end part 3 wheel bearings brake lines 525000 kilometers about 310000 miles it still has the original brake shoes on the rears and the original muffler.
I also have a 2011 Dodge van and it is junk and has been a money pit.
The Mazda is off the road due to body cancer and the 97 Dodge soon will be it has alot of rusty fresh air vents .
Neither vehicle burns oil
Kash

 

[KASH]

Toyota wiring is being chewed up by the mice because of the natural coating that they use on the wiring.
Kash

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

It's pretty much every brand that took a nosedive in '07 on up. Stuff built prior to that easily reached 200k miles with the most severe of abuse. These days it seems it's a milestone to reach 100k without major engine or driveline work.

FoMoCo, GM, and FCA or whoever the hell owns them now all have inevitable valvetrain issues. Ford and GM diesels have been abysmal in quality, too with FoMoCo taking the lead there with their 6.0 & 6.4's that cost owners tens of thousands in repairs. Cars are even worse in quality. I've seen engine failures before the 1st oil change, and most BEFORE 100k. I had a 2 year old Chevy Cruze here once with less than 40k on the clock, 5 codes in the engine computer, power windows that wouldn't work, and a frigged up parking brake. What a POS!!

Quality control has become a 20th century relic.

 

[camel2019]

It's pretty much every brand that took a nosedive in '07 on up. Stuff built prior to that easily reached 200k miles with the most severe of abuse. These days it seems it's a milestone to reach 100k without major engine or driveline work.

FoMoCo, GM, and FCA or whoever the hell owns them now all have inevitable valvetrain issues. Ford and GM diesels have been abysmal in quality, too with FoMoCo taking the lead there with their 6.0 & 6.4's that cost owners tens of thousands in repairs. Cars are even worse in quality. I've seen engine failures before the 1st oil change, and most BEFORE 100k. I had a 2 year old Chevy Cruze here once with less than 40k on the clock, 5 codes in the engine computer, power windows that wouldn't work, and a frigged up parking brake. What a POS!!

Quality control has become a 20th century relic.

It’s called planned obsolescence Ford even hard it in the model t but it’s didn’t works so well bc it’s so simple. There’s a guy in town that drives a barn find 23 t around in the summer still has the japanning on it.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I like to be able to work on my own equipment as much as possible, regardless of what it is.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

AMEN to that!

 

[Cricket]

Not really see plenty people stuck awaiting a tow truck probably due to most people just driving a vehicle and not doing anything but changing the oil but still. I was stranded last summer but that was because the guy I got bought my truck off of didn’t torque down the converter bolts when he swapped the transmission.

That was the demise of my last big pickup - ironic part - I didn't do my usual "crawl around under it and and check because I'm paranoid" routine, because the guy was - wait for it - a certified mechanic with like forty years experience.

Not sure I'd have seen it - one of the bolts was actually broken off, so it looked to be there, and was tight/jammed - but it killed it pretty thoroughly, regardless.

 

[camel2019]

That was the demise of my last big pickup - ironic part - I didn't do my usual "crawl around under it and and check because I'm paranoid" routine, because the guy was - wait for it - a certified mechanic with like forty years experience.

Not sure I'd have seen it - one of the bolts was actually broken off, so it looked to be there, and was tight/jammed - but it killed it pretty thoroughly, regardless.

If it was anything but a 1 ton I probably wouldn’t have fixed it.

 

[Cricket]

Why woukd you expect it to be free?

I wouldn't necessarily *expect* it - but short-sightedness isn't a great business practice either. Doing things that make it easier for someone to use your product, shouldn't be an instant "I don't wanna" by manufacturers - and a lot of them seem to miss that. Maybe in part because it doesn't tend to hit them 'til a few years down the road, when repairs are an expensive PITA, and somebody else had the smarts to think ahead and make them easier on their brand of saw.